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Thread: 22 - Arturo Vidal

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    Quote Originally Posted by BerkeleyBernie View Post
    What's sad is that Vidal is offering more movement than the rest of the team. That's how he got his goal. Creative players are wasted if there's no one to deliver to, no one moving to disrupt the opposition defence to creat openings for teammates.
    But who are supposed to move? The DM? De Jong, Arthur, Messi? The backs? Suarez moves okayish in the box but IMO buying Griezmann instead of a Villa/Pedro type of winger was wrong. All of our offensive movement is basically thought to be made by the attacker next to Suárez and Messi. And Dembele doesn’t run.

    I don’t want to see a Busi-Arthur-De Jong midfield, Arthur-De Jong is enough. Then Vidal have to play and also a winger with movement (not Dembele), that would help. That would make it three players moving in the box (Vidal, Suarez and winger). That’s why I want Donny Van De Beek so much, not another high volume passer
    Last edited by Riordon; 7th October 2019 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riordon View Post
    But who are supposed to move? The DM? De Jong, Arthur, Messi? The backs? Suarez moves okayish in the box but IMO buying Griezmann instead of a Villa/Pedro type of winger was wrong. All of our offensive movement is basically thought to be made by the attacker next to Suárez and Messi. And Dembele doesn’t run.

    I don’t want to see a Busi-Arthur-De Jong midfield, Arthur-De Jong is enough. Then Vidal have to play and also a winger with movement (not Dembele), that would help. That would make it three players moving in the box (Vidal, Suarez and winger). That’s why I want Donny Van De Beek so much, not another high volume passer
    +1 on Van De Beek. I hope the board really scout him. He was a standout in the CL games of Ajax that I watched last year.

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    The 32-year-old has now started 23 league games for Barcelona, winning 15, drawing eight and losing exactly zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barcilliant View Post
    The 32-year-old has now started 23 league games for Barcelona, winning 15, drawing eight and losing exactly zero.
    in other words -> alpha baller

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    Look closer. Only a couple of those starts were against big teams.

    1 vs Atletico: draw
    2 vs Bilbao: 2 draws
    1 vs Valencia: draw
    2 vs Sevilla: 2 wins

    Nothing special.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    Raki, Vidal and most likely Alena won't be here anymore next season and I hope Busi won't stay for more than 2 years. I like Roberto's versatility but he also could be a candidate to be sold if we get another starting calibre midfielder and his role will diminish further in a year or two.
    Why wouldn't Vidal stay for another season? He hasn't showed any sign of decline since he arrived. He's also out of contract in 2021 so I doubt anyone would want to pay enough money for him.
    I don't think he'll leave unless we win the CL which is his big goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andresito View Post
    Why wouldn't Vidal stay for another season? He hasn't showed any sign of decline since he arrived. He's also out of contract in 2021 so I doubt anyone would want to pay enough money for him.
    I don't think he'll leave unless we win the CL which is his big goal.
    Playing time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havesaks View Post
    Playing time?
    He adds something different so as long he doesn't show a big decline he'll get playing time. And I don't think he'd rather play in a mid tier team week in week out rather than playing sporadically for Barca. It's his last big club, if he feels he can contribute, he'll want to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andresito View Post
    He adds something different so as long he doesn't show a big decline he'll get playing time. And I don't think he'd rather play in a mid tier team week in week out rather than playing sporadically for Barca. It's his last big club, if he feels he can contribute, he'll want to stay.
    He has already shown that he values playing time a lot and while he offers a lot, his decline from last season is already clearly visible. Despite him not playing much in first quarter of last season and not playing full minutes the remaining season, he looked flat as hell in the end stage of last season. The guy can't be much more than an impact-sub. And even in that role he maybe wont have the quality to be an asset as the season progresses, And tbh i would rather play Roberto as OM creating dynamic than him. Arthur + frenkie will hug most of the playing time and Sergio will also be in front of him... Alena will maybe also get a bigger role. And isnt the club considering buying another starting CM next summer? As it is now, he may be okay with his limited role, but that may very well not be the case after this season. Im sure he will have a lot of options and it's also not like he is on small wages.

    So yes, it's not at all certain that Barca and himself both arent profiting from him leaving already after this season.

    Dont be to sure about Barca is his last big club, im sure some clubs would take the gamble with him, especially in in Italy and germany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havesaks View Post
    He has already shown that he values playing time a lot and while he offers a lot, his decline from last season is already clearly visible. Despite him not playing much in first quarter of last season and not playing full minutes the remaining season, he looked flat as hell in the end stage of last season. The guy can't be much more than an impact-sub. And even in that role he maybe wont have the quality to be an asset as the season progresses, And tbh i would rather play Roberto as OM creating dynamic than him. Arthur + frenkie will hug most of the playing time and Sergio will also be in front of him... Alena will maybe also get a bigger role. And isnt the club considering buying another starting CM next summer? As it is now, he may be okay with his limited role, but that may very well not be the case after this season. Im sure he will have a lot of options and it's also not like he is on small wages.

    So yes, it's not at all certain that Barca and himself both arent profiting from him leaving already after this season.

    Dont be to sure about Barca is his last big club, im sure some clubs would take the gamble with him, especially in in Italy and germany.
    Of course he wants to play as much as possible, who doesn't. But I'm sure he's realistic and realizes that he can't be an undisputable starter. He's also said multiple times that he knows he offers something different to the rest of the squad, so he definitely knows his value to the team and doesn't overrate himself like some others.

    I disagree with him declining. He's showing his strengths in the same way as last season. He was never a standout scorer or assister to begin with. He still contributes at the same level, and complementing the rest of the squad with great bravery, fight and workrate.

    Roberto and Vidal offer different things with Roberto being closer to the rest of the midfielders than Arturo. And I wouldn't say Roberto is a better offensive player than Vidal.
    Rakitic for sure will leave, Aleña might leave on loan if we bring in a new midfielder. We need some experience.

    I disagree that he can get a contract at another big club. You mention Italy and Germany, but neither Juve nor Bayern are going to sign him again. So I don't know what other big clubs you're referring to in those countries that are capable of winning the CL that he wants. He'll probably go home or to China when he leaves Barca.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andresito View Post
    Of course he wants to play as much as possible, who doesn't. But I'm sure he's realistic and realizes that he can't be an undisputable starter. He's also said multiple times that he knows he offers something different to the rest of the squad, so he definitely knows his value to the team and doesn't overrate himself like some others.

    I disagree with him declining. He's showing his strengths in the same way as last season. He was never a standout scorer or assister to begin with. He still contributes at the same level, and complementing the rest of the squad with great bravery, fight and workrate.

    Roberto and Vidal offer different things with Roberto being closer to the rest of the midfielders than Arturo. And I wouldn't say Roberto is a better offensive player than Vidal.
    Rakitic for sure will leave, Aleña might leave on loan if we bring in a new midfielder. We need some experience.

    I disagree that he can get a contract at another big club. You mention Italy and Germany, but neither Juve nor Bayern are going to sign him again. So I don't know what other big clubs you're referring to in those countries that are capable of winning the CL that he wants. He'll probably go home or to China when he leaves Barca.
    In the end of the day we both agree he wants to be important to the team. And exactly playing time / feeling valued, may be the reason he wants leave, which was my original suggestion for a likely reason to leave. Having two young must-starters in Frenkie and Arthur, a decent playing club-legend in Sergio, maybe 1-2 talents in Puig and Alena, maybe another starting-materiale transferred CM, and Roberto who at very least will be a 4/5th pick in midfield... And you dont consider that to be a likely obstacle for playing time next season? Not to talk about his decline and we dont even know who will be the coach next year.

    Regarding decline. Last season he was a beast first couple of months or so, and for various reasons declined a lot and didn't stand out anymore but yet another player in the group. What he brings to the team: workrate and hunger he can only maintain for 45 minutes. Or else he wont actually contribute but just take a spot on high wages. Valverde has probably realized that, and thats the reason he hasn't fielded him more than those silly 180min and his big game vs inter wont change that much imo. Me stating "clearly visible decline this season" was a mistake, because he hasn't played enough to make that claim, but his work rate and hunger has for now seemed lesser than last season imo.
    And, just because he has something to bring to the team doesn't guarantee him playing time, Sergio, roberto, New CM also have qualities who may get them picked in stead of Vidal. The midfield-constellation is still pretty new and is yet unknown how will connect best with who in what situations. In other words how much playing time will he get and how much do those 'qualities' of his really bring... We dont know that for sure. But we do know that midfielded is crowded, roberto, Sergio, frenkie, Arthur all are ubtouchable in this team and demand a certain amount of playing time while Vidal is the odd one out.

    So I think it's fair to assume playing time may be a not that unlikely reason for him going next summer.

    He wants a champions leauge, yes, but not on a free ride and I don't see Bayern or Juventus as possibilities neither, but maybe he will go to Arsenal to play in PL for first time, which would fit very well imo, or he wants to play for a big team like Napoli or inter in stead of getting spare minutes for us and just covering a spot for no real reason.
    Last edited by Havesaks; 15th October 2019 at 09:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havesaks View Post
    In the end of the day we both agree he wants to be important to the team. And exactly playing time / feeling valued, may be the reason he wants leave, which was my original suggestion for a likely reason to leave. Having two young must-starters in Frenkie and Arthur, a decent playing club-legend in Sergio, maybe 1-2 talents in Puig and Alena, maybe another starting-materiale transferred CM, and Roberto who at very least will be a 4/5th pick in midfield... And you dont consider that to be a likely obstacle for playing time next season? Not to talk about his decline and we dont even know who will be the coach next year.

    Regarding decline. Last season he was a beast first couple of months or so, and for various reasons declined a lot and didn't stand out anymore but yet another player in the group. What he brings to the team: workrate and hunger he can only maintain for 45 minutes. Or else he wont actually contribute but just take a spot on high wages. Valverde has probably realized that, and thats the reason he hasn't fielded him more than those silly 180min and his big game vs inter wont change that much imo. Me stating "clearly visible decline this season" was a mistake, because he hasn't played enough to make that claim, but his work rate and hunger has for now seemed lesser than last season imo.
    And, just because he has something to bring to the team doesn't guarantee him playing time, Sergio, roberto, New CM also have qualities who may get them picked in stead of Vidal. The midfield-constellation is still pretty new and is yet unknown how will connect best with who in what situations. In other words how much playing time will he get and how much do those 'qualities' of his really bring... We dont know that for sure. But we do know that midfielded is crowded, roberto, Sergio, frenkie, Arthur all are ubtouchable in this team and demand a certain amount of playing time while Vidal is the odd one out.

    So I think it's fair to assume playing time may be a not that unlikely reason for him going next summer.

    He wants a champions leauge, yes, but not on a free ride and I don't see Bayern or Juventus as possibilities neither, but maybe he will go to Arsenal to play in PL for first time, which would fit very well imo, or he wants to play for a big team like Napoli or inter in stead of getting spare minutes for us and just covering a spot for no real reason.
    I strongly disagree. Following recent patterns, who is most likely to be subbed on if we have a narrow lead? Roberto, Aleña, Riqui or even Rakitic? Pep used to do this with Keita.

    Also in risky away games against lesser teams and in Copa, who is the ONLY player in the squad that you know will give 100% no matter what?

    I'm not defending Vidal to death. But he's smart enough to know his value, and by knowing that he's aware that he's guaranteed playing time. Not every week, but probably enough to feel valuable.

    And I think it's unrealistic he'd move to Italy unless he wants to settle there with his family. And he's not the type of player that'd be signed by a team in PL.

    I still emphasize his desire to win CL, he won almost all other available trophies and his top level career is coming to an end soon. He'd be stupid to leave willingly, and we'd be stupid to let him go unless we signed a replacement so that our midfield isn't 100% nice boy tiki-taka players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andresito View Post
    Why wouldn't Vidal stay for another season? He hasn't showed any sign of decline since he arrived. He's also out of contract in 2021 so I doubt anyone would want to pay enough money for him.
    I don't think he'll leave unless we win the CL which is his big goal.
    I don't mind Vidal staying but there were rumours we might already considering selling him in January (which I disagree with as we won't get a replacement) so we'll probably try to at least get something for him next summer to have money for Neymar (hopefully not but I'm still affraid this will happen) and other transfers. But if we won't get a good enough offer and Vidal wants to stay I don't have any problem with that (unless he'll suddenly decline drastically over the next 7-8 months). I would be ok with FDJ-Arthur-new CM/DM (depending on where we prefer to use FDJ) midfield with Busi, Vidal and Roberto as their backups (but all three should be phased out of the club in the next two years with Puig, maybe Pedri and potentially another new CM/DM replacing them). We should also somehow convince Puig to go on loan as even with Vidal leaving I don't think there will be enough regular minutes for him next season regardless of who our coach will be. I've given up on Alena's first team future unless he'll go on loan to a team like Betis in January and have a really good second half of the season.

    BTW, I think these last few posts should be moved to the Vidal or Barca Transfers and Rumours thread as they have nothing to do with Pedri.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andresito View Post
    I strongly disagree. Following recent patterns, who is most likely to be subbed on if we have a narrow lead? Roberto, Aleña, Riqui or even Rakitic? Pep used to do this with Keita.

    Also in risky away games against lesser teams and in Copa, who is the ONLY player in the squad that you know will give 100% no matter what?

    I'm not defending Vidal to death. But he's smart enough to know his value, and by knowing that he's aware that he's guaranteed playing time. Not every week, but probably enough to feel valuable.

    And I think it's unrealistic he'd move to Italy unless he wants to settle there with his family. And he's not the type of player that'd be signed by a team in PL.

    I still emphasize his desire to win CL, he won almost all other available trophies and his top level career is coming to an end soon. He'd be stupid to leave willingly, and we'd be stupid to let him go unless we signed a replacement so that our midfield isn't 100% nice boy tiki-taka players.
    For now Vidal has only fielded 180 minutes.. Im pretty sure he isnt ok with that at all. And for now it also underlines the point of him having a rather insignificant role, which may- or may not change.

    If the guy moves next summer, he wont be missed i think. Work radius and hunger in midfield was more an issue last two seasons, and especially last season, which is pretty well covered now with an injurie-free Arthur, Beast frenkie, Robert freed up from Rb, and even Rakitic who wont be exausted playing every week. And same goes for Sergio.

    Im not so sure Vidal will be the player to subin to protect a lead this season, or right now, all subs Roberto, Sergio, Alena, Rakitic are hungry for playing time and proving their worth. We have a lot of options in the midfield this season.

    Can just say it again, the only midfielders who are sure to be here next season are Sergio, Frenkie, Arthur and Roberto all the others are easily expandable. And next summer will be last chance to score Cash on him, abd especially freeing up space in the wage departement.

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    Probably his worst off-the-bench cameo in quite a bit. Gave away that dangerous foul straight away, and struggled to pass the ball time and again.

    Even defensively he struggled against Slavia's players.



    Alena wouldn't see football in half a year if he played like that but it happens. He was good vs Sevilla and Inter so he's probably fine.

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