Real Madrid 11-1 Barcelona

[El Guaje]

Hello everybody. At this very moment, I am having a discussion with a Madrid fan at another forum and he just keeps bringing the 11-1 thing up.

I just have a question. I am searching to find some info about the match since I think that I've heard that the players got threatened with guns etc. in the dressing room or something like that, but I just dont remember where and when I saw it.

So, do you guys have any links you can provide me with, that shows that the players were threatened and all that (if it is true).

Or did Madrid win by 11-1 fully legit?

[mittchan82]

http://www.oleole.com/blogs/realmadr...eally-happened

Not sure how much of it is true but it does shed some lights on the allegations.

You got to remember that Real has been a good team throughout the history of its existence.

[javinglish]

On those days when General Franco the dictator ruled the country, there was no need for police officers (the "greys" as they used to call them) in drawing a gun to make a point. Everyone could imagine the consequences when orders from the police were not followed.

In view of this, any sort of personal threat by anyone supporting the dictatorial regime in the lines of "something may happen if you do/don't... " was enough to scare the hell out of a Barça football player, basically because the threat was real and the consequences would be terrifying.

When the Barça 100 years celebrations took place, there was a program on Calatan TV that lasted several months and talked about the club's history. Many subjects were discussed and one of them was this match. Some of the Barcelona players that were there that day explained many anecdotes, some of them explained that they were told that "at the end of the match they would be taken to prison and so would their families", just like that!!!. Back then, if you were taken to prison, it was guaranteed you would be well roughed up and getting released would not be easy at all.

Barcelona players did not get beaten as far as I remenber. One more thing, one of the Barça players I recall saying that the ref was not a Real Madrid fan and players didn't believe it was his intention to make things easier tor Real Madrid. Barça players strongly believed that the ref acted the way he did because he was also threatened and the players could see true fear in his eyes.

I have the whole program recorded but it's abroad and right now i cannot get hold of it, so unlucky because I'd love to watch it now that you have brought this subject back to my memory.

[El Guaje]

Oh, thanks for the replies guys. Quite interesting to read

[KhaledBarca]

On those days when General Franco the dictator ruled the country, there was no need for police officers (the "greys" as they used to call them) in drawing a gun to make a point. Everyone could imagine the consequences when orders from the police were not followed.

In view of this, any sort of personal threat by anyone supporting the dictatorial regime in the lines of "something may happen if you do/don't... " was enough to scare the hell out of a Barça football player, basically because the threat was real and the consequences would be terrifying.

When the Barça 100 years celebrations took place, there was a program on Calatan TV that lasted several months and talked about the club's history. Many subjects were discussed and one of them was this match. Some of the Barcelona players that were there that day explained many anecdotes, some of them explained that they were told that "at the end of the match they would be taken to prison and so would their families", just like that!!!. Back then, if you were taken to prison, it was guaranteed you would be well roughed up and getting released would not be easy at all.

Barcelona players did not get beaten as far as I remenber. One more thing, one of the Barça players I recall saying that the ref was not a Real Madrid fan and players didn't believe it was his intention to make things easier tor Real Madrid. Barça players strongly believed that the ref acted the way he did because he was also threatened and the players could see true fear in his eyes.

I have the whole program recorded but it's abroad and right now i cannot get hold of it, so unlucky because I'd love to watch it now that you have brought this subject back to my memory.

thx for info

can u upload the video thx

[stokebarca]

Another dignified episode in Madrid's history. Kind of makes you puke at Mourinho's recent allegations of bias in favour of us!

[Ocurrente]

"In an incomprehensible abnormality match, Barcelona collapsed against the fantastic game displayed by the winners."

what make Madridistas think that a team that beat madrid 3-0 a week earlier, can lose 11-1, without thinking something strange happened.

[stokebarca]

Madridista's are great at lying to themselves or bending the truth

[Peerd]

Attachment 3176
"In an incomprehensible abnormality match, Barcelona collapsed against the fantastic game displayed by the winners."

what make Madridistas think that a team that beat madrid 3-0 a week earlier, can lose 11-1, without thinking something strange happened.

Marca..........

So they have a "wrong" past too eh.

[TanzaBarca]

Marca..........

So they have a "wrong" past too eh.

I heard that in the previous match Barca won 3-1, so at half time of the said match Barca players received the visitors in the dressing room, it was Franco's generals with all sorts of threats to our players that they must loose the match and therefore players decided to play under protest which led to that score.

I also heard that after the match our goalkeeper received a lifeban from the football federation.

[Beast]

Another dignified episode in Madrid's history. Kind of makes you puke at Mourinho's recent allegations of bias in favour of us!

Another undignified post and an invitation to teach history

fact 1- Franco started using Real Madrid as his propaganda wagon the second half of the 50's after the initial success in Europe
fact 2- through out the post civil war till the mid-50's the Franco (and dictatorship ) was the Airforce (Army ) team Atlético Aviación currently known as Atletico Madrid
fact 3- Franco was so in love with Real Madrid so in love it took him 14 years to enforce a liga title for Real Madrid !? what a genius fan..
So much for Franco love for Real huh ? the first 14 years after the civil war the winners were :
Atlético Aviación (Atletico Madrid ) 4 times , Valencia 3 times , Barcelona 5 times , Seville 1 time , Athletic Bilbao 1

So Franco was so in Love he made Barca lose 11-1 to Real Madrid in 1943 (the year Bilbao won the league).. but not once.. again not once did he bother to help them win the league till 1954 ? not only that Real Madrid managed to come second just twice in those 14 years ..
It's not a secret that Real Madrid who was under leftist president and board during the civil war lost many board members (whoever since we don't use the victim card like Cule's we don't use them every time like you do with Sunyol ) more than Barca and the location of their bodies is still unknown till this day

The high scoring is common during that times (we beat you 8-2 in 1935 )however Barca till now couldn't comprehend the defeat so the players cheaply blamed it on some imaginary threats.. documents and more validation where discussed before in RM thread however it doesn't take a genius to put 2 & 2 together .. there was no conspiracy as Franco was not even bothered by this and the army support was with Atletico Madrid who took the first 2 liga titles after the civil war , Barca lost this game fair and square and trying to rewrite history is still a pathetic attempt from Barcelona

[DucdeOrléans]

This Spanish documentary aired on History Channel seem to disagree with that view...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxwjh-S1CQY

Apart from that Francisco Franco already had a preference for RM way before the late 1950's claiming otherwise is just stupid plain and simple (and changing history).

"In 1936, when Francisco Franco started the golpe against the democratic Second Spanish Republic, the president of Barcelona FC Josep Sunyol was arrested and executed by Franco's security police[8] (Sunyol was exercising his political activities, visiting Republican troops north of Madrid[9]). The Barcelona FC was on top of the list of organizations to be purged by Franco's troops, just after Communists, Anarchists and Separatists.[8][11]" (several references and firsthand sources in those references used, 8, 9 and 11) (El Clásico article on English Wikipedia)

Whether there was any involvement from the fascist government in the 11-1 defeat or not is not known for sure.

The only thing that is sure is that FCB won the first leg 3-0 at home to lose 11-1 away in the return leg a week later. Most people would find that strange....

What is certain is that the preference of Franco was clear and that is a undeniable fact although some madridistas try to paint a different image.

Leading 8-0 after the first half (after having lost 3-0 away) can hardly be seen as normal as you try to make it out....

[woobie]

Dude, the History Channel is not something you should take as any kind of authority. Most of what they produce is very poorly researched and not particularly accurate. It's a visual wikipedia for history.

[DucdeOrléans]

Dude, the History Channel is not something you should take as any kind of authority. Most of what they produce is very poorly researched and not particularly accurate. It's a visual wikipedia for history.

History Channel is not needed to confirm that Francisco Franco and his establishment had a preference for RM and favoured them in comparison with FCB. There are enough other sources who confirm this. The documentary was just one of many.

How can you conclude, without seeing the documentary that it is useless (or much alike)? Do you even speak Spanish?

Apart from that it is a Spanish documentary aired on History Channel. Not produced by them, a big difference.

[Beast]

This Spanish documentary aired on History Channel seem to disagree with that view...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxwjh-S1CQY

Apart from that Francisco Franco already had a preference for RM way before the late 1950's claiming otherwise is just stupid plain and simple (and changing history).

"In 1936, when Francisco Franco started the golpe against the democratic Second Spanish Republic, the president of Barcelona FC Josep Sunyol was arrested and executed by Franco's security police[8] (Sunyol was exercising his political activities, visiting Republican troops north of Madrid[9]). The Barcelona FC was on top of the list of organizations to be purged by Franco's troops, just after Communists, Anarchists and Separatists.[8][11]" (several references and firsthand sources in those references used, 8, 9 and 11) (El Clásico article on English Wikipedia)

Whether there was any involvement from the fascist government in the 11-1 defeat or not is not known for sure.

The only thing that is sure is that FCB won the first leg 3-0 at home to lose 11-1 away in the return leg a week later. Most people would find that strange....

What is certain is that the preference of Franco was clear and that is a undeniable fact although some madridistas try to paint a different image.

Leading 8-0 after the first half (after having lost 3-0 away) can hardly be seen as normal as you try to make it out....

Did you see me deny that Sunyol was killed ? the fact is RM lost more board members killed by Franco men = FACT

just quickly i will copy & paste cause i have to go to work

Sanchez Guerra:
His presidency coincided with the Spanish Civil War and Sánchez-Guerra was a prominent Republican, refusing to flee Madrid as it was about to fall into the hands of Franco. He was captured, imprisoned by supporters of Franco before escaping to Paris where he became a prominent member of the government-in-exile. During the war itself, Sánchez-Guerra had little active involvement in the daily management of Real Madrid, acting with non official presidents Juan José Vallejo and Antonio Ortega (these two presidents were not elected), running things on his behalf.
Indeed, during the civil war Real Madrid’s president had been Colonel Antonio Ortega, a man committed to Communist ideology, a member of the Socialist Party executive, an officer in the ranks of the left-wing militia and a public opponent of General Franco (Bolloten: 1991, p.486-487). In a remarkable chapter in the club’s history it’s previously highly exclusive facilities were thrown open to the public, membership fees were slashed and the Chamartín stadium became a centre for Soviet-style displays of proletarian sporting endeavour (Goldblatt: 2007, p.302). In a series of political gestures completely contrary to the right-wing ideology the club is commonly thought to have always held, Real Madrid became a hub for the organisation of Madrid’s socialist community.

on the eve of civil war neither Real Madrid nor the city itself had anything like the associations with Franco’s brand of non-syndicalist Fascism (Payne: 1999, p.476) that they would come to have further down the line. The final stronghold of Spanish leftism as well as the refuge of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera (son of Miguel), the founder of the original Falangist movement which sought to combine nationalism with anarcho-syndicalism (Payne: 1999, p.150), Madrid was a place with no clear collective political identity other than being bound by opposition to Francoist forces.

Indeed, during the civil war Real Madrid’s president had been Colonel Antonio Ortega, a man committed to Communist ideology, a member of the Socialist Party executive, an officer in the ranks of the left-wing militia and a public opponent of General Franco (Bolloten: 1991, p.486-487). In a remarkable chapter in the club’s history it’s previously highly exclusive facilities were thrown open to the public, membership fees were slashed and the Chamartín stadium became a centre for Soviet-style displays of proletarian sporting endeavour (Goldblatt: 2007, p.302). In a series of political gestures completely contrary to the right-wing ideology the club is commonly thought to have always held, Real Madrid became a hub for the organisation of Madrid’s socialist community.

While the club was not formally a part of the political processes of the time, those who ran it during the civil war were most certainly members of highly significant political parties and, it could be argued, used the club as an extension of their socialist agenda. As Douglass North (1990, p.6) writes in Institutions, Institutional Change and Economic Performance, the major role of institutions in a society is to reduce uncertainty by establishing a stable structure for human interaction. During a turbulent political period with civil war raging and the future of Spain in some doubt, I believe it can be said that that is the precise purpose Real Madrid served during those years of change.

If we relate Real Madrid’s institutional significance from 1936 to 1939 to the research of Jennifer Gandhi, then we can gain a deeper understanding of just how the club fitted into the institutional structure of Spain during the civil war. Gandhi (2008, p.168) argues that political elites actively seek the cooperation of groups outside of their own circle during wartime in order to recruit and mobilise far greater numbers of troops, the specific conditions of each situation determining the amount of wider institutionalisation of these groups that takes place.

In the case of Real Madrid during the civil war we can say that the club was part of a widening of the institutional ‘net’ of the Spanish socialist movement, the leaders of the movement using the club’s identity and physical assets to motivate the city’s population and propagate socialist ideals (Goldblatt: 2007, p.302). Indeed, using Gandhi’s argument of political elites and institutions spreading their influence over a wider section of society in wartime, we can argue that it was during the civil war rather than the Franco years that Real Madrid was most closely tied to a specific political party.

This perspective also tallies with the view rational choice theorists take of political institutions, namely that institutions are seen as structures of voluntary cooperation that resolve problems of collective action (Shapiro et al: 2006, p.32). The parameters of this definition sit well with Real Madrid’s role during the civil war, it being made a far more public institution, opened up to the benefit of the wider community with the aim of resolving an issue of collective action.

While the conflict may have seen Real Madrid’s political influence grow, the conclusion of the civil war saw the club’s leading socialist officials brutally dealt with by the Franco regime. Ortega vanished at the end of formal hostilities, it being widely believed that he was executed for his role in the Socialist party (Ball: 2002, p.90), the Colonel being one of several club administrators to have been rumoured to have met their death at the hands of the Fascists.
On the 20th of October, Ramon Eroles, the president of the Catalan Football Federation called a meeting between directors of all the Catalan clubs to finalise a deal.

All of the clubs were in agreement that Madrid should be allowed to join the championship, but unfortunately for Real Madrid, there was one notable exception.

Rosendo Calvet a representative of FC Barcelona, said that his club opposed Madrid’s participation, as it would cause smaller second-division clubs in Catalunya to suffer, for example a loss of gate-money.

Calvet wouldn’t listen to those who argued why allowing Madrid to join the championship was the right thing to do.

During the meeting, Eroles excused himself and said he had to take a telephone call.

When he returned he explained that he had received an important notification from an unknown source.

The source had claimed that a document was on it’s way to the Catalan Federation, signed by all of he 2nd Division clubs opposing Madrid’s participation.

The meeting was immediately suspended awaiting the arrival of the said document.

The document never arrived and those at the meeting suspected it was a ploy deviously conjured up by Calvet and his associates to delay the signing of the agreement.

Seven days later, Eroles on behalf of the Catalan Football Federation, issued an official press release, opposing Real Madrid’s participation in the Catalan Championship, because it would damage the smaller Catalan clubs.

The saga did not end here, as after the press-release the smaller Catalan clubs of the 2nd Division themselves released a unified statement, saying they were never against Madrid’s participation and that the Catalan Federation had never even asked for their opinion on the matter.

To many observers, it seemed that Eroles was in the pocket of Rosendo Calvet and his FC Barcelona associates and that they had conspired to deny Madrid’s participation.

Paco Bru, who himself had played for FC Barcelona between 1906 and 1916, felt badly let down by a club that he still had tremendous affection for and returned disillusioned to Madrid to break the bad news.

Real Madrid had no option at this point, other than to allow all of their players to leave, in order to find opportunities to play football in other clubs, until the civil conflict had ended