Luis Enrique

Agree with you Serghei, but that is exactly what is worrying me. No easy answers. I don't buy the theory we just turned bad, I don't even buy Lucho just suddenly completly lost it. There is something going on in the dressing room that's not good for sure.

[MENTION=14062]Gaudi[/MENTION], it's surely a combination of multiple factors. But the Benitez Madrid showed us that a bad environment can create problems that might not even be there under normal and healthy atmosphere. Yes, our squad is in a worse state than Madrid's. That's clear. But you can still be very competitive with it and it is not nearly as bad as it's made out to be.

I mean for example, when you play Mathieu in a CL QF as a LCB your create one extra problem to deal with. Lucho just made bad calls again and again until he ruined the actual environment of the team. You can't thrive in an atmosphere based on chaotic decisions. Every player will look worse and the team's overall feeling will suffer.

DonAK said:

Motivation is the easiest cop-out.

The issues are tactical and personnel.

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adding to that players also tend to lose motivation if things just don't work. Look at Lucho's "tactics", how do people expect players to stay at a high level of motivation and morale if they are tactically outdone every step of the way. You can pick a group of the most motivated and best players in their positions and place them in a team without tactics and they'll lose to a tactically brilliant team 8 time outta 10.

serghei said:

You can't really say that a team who won 5/6 possible important titles in the previous two seasons, suddenly doesn't have quality players anymore. That is a major stretch.

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This way it sounds as our team turned bad this season.
But we are actually in a free fall since February or March of 2016.

That is almost season and a half.
We managed to lose all trophies since then (except a Cdr for whom nobody care).
Spring 2016 we lost Cl, and we won 10 points less than Real.
So, we won la liga last season only because of autumn and winter 2015/16.
Basically, in the last season and a half, we lost 2 cls and real won 15 points more than us in la liga (roughly 10+5).

All we won are cdrs...

I just wanted to say: we didn't turn bad suddenly. And when people say that we won 5 major titles in 2 years, it sounds as we were dominating for long periods.

We had bad first 6 months under Lucho.
Then awesome 12 months.
And then horrible 18 months.

So, imo, yes, we don't have quality, motivated and players who can run anymore.

This period of 15-18 months of a bad form is too long and I can't buy a story that this is just a shorter bad period which will be fixed by a new coach.

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], we lost some games in a row in the last season. Yes, it was a bad patch, but those were regular losses that can happen. Certainly not losing 0-3 and 0-4 in two back to back away games in CL. Nothing of the sort. We went out from CL after a very close affair with Atletico.

We have plenty of quality. Only Madrid and Bayern have better squads than us. I agree that there are some problems in the team. But let's not go there and say that we have a bad team. That is far from the truth and pure exaggeration.

Unless you think our squad turned from great (all of 2015) to bad (early 2016) in a couple of months. Player quality doesn't change is several months. But the atmosphere in the team can change and lead to a prolonged period of bad performances, and this is what happened with us this season. More than the 2-3 bad transfers from the summer of 2016.

Enrique needs to take a lot of responsibility for not making any changes sooner. Almost the entire forum knew that we were heading for disaster but he didn't see it.

He only ever changed after the PSG trashing. And even after the come back, he still played another bad line up in another away game which we lost!

So even after he learnt from one mistake, he still made another one only a few days later. That's just terrible.

We are/were the best tema for last 10 years, no doubt..but we weren't like miles ahead of some. For example Real was weak in La Liga but did good in CL, Bayern and Juve completly dominate their leagues. Of coursae we can't play in those leagues but we culd talk about their motivation as well, yet they all look motivated. For example Bayern is losing currently to Mainz, that's all down to motivation. They are out from CL in "strange" fashion and they have Bundesliga in a pocket...but even if we are tired of wining LA Liga we were destroyed two times in CL...it can't be only lack of motivation. Like [MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] said you can lose but 0:4 and 0:3 is more than that.
Neither it can be only down to players declining because noone declines this fast. We beat easily simmilar Juve, different players but very simillar strength, and we played with Raki-Busi-Iniesta midfield. They weren't fast and agressive then they are not now. It's not like they were super mobile and fast then and now they declined. But we beat them easily. In Turin we even played with Masch and Roberto in midfield, so even if we lacked in attack we had faster midfield then in CL final but we were bypassed with ease. Actually it's our defending that was problem. So how is that possible?
Let's even forget Juve game, we played with PSG that we swept aside and this year we were destroyed in PAris. Ok, we had that magical comeback but even that game proves something is wrong when the same team can play 2 so different matches!

I agree with you @BBZ that we were actually more time bad then good with Lucho even though, tropy wise, he is a success, but I think problem are bigger than just Lucho. I wish it's only that because it will be solved soon then.

[MENTION=14062]Gaudi[/MENTION], well-put. There are signs of a poorly managed team. The meltdown and the feeling of helplessness is similar to what happened when we were managed by Roura in 12-13 in the 2nd part of the season. Lost to Milan 0-2, turned it 4-0 at home and went through, thinking we're back, like we thought this year after the 6-1. Then got dominated by PSG, went through with great luck, but got humiliated in Munich again 4-0, and by Madrid 3-1 at home in Copa del Rey (was 0-3 until Alba scored in the end).

Then it wasn't mostly about player quality. And now it's not primarily about player quality either. It's just that the team does not look like a team, but like some players thrown out there and playing in complete disarray of each other, with no conviction and paper-thin tactics. Again, like in the season we were managed by Roura in the most important part of the season.

Have to win all our remaining games.

Please Lucho, we're out of the CL, please just keep playing your best players as long as it's possible and don't experiment now.

Please don't mess with this formation anymore..... Please play the first XI for the rest of the season and bring in Paco every time we have a 2 goal lead. PLEASE!

For all his faults I have no doubt he had a hand in motivating players for this match.

So well done Lucho and congratulations on the win in your last el Clasico.

(btw. there was a stat saying Tito, Tata, Frank, Pep all lostvtheir last Clasicos)

Bojan said:

For all his faults I have no doubt he had a hand in motivating players for this match.

So well done Lucho and congratulations on the win in your last el Clasico.

(btw. there was a stat saying Tito, Tata, Frank, Pep all lostvtheir last Clasicos)

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Feel like we won inspite of him. Anyways, 4-4-3 and 3-4-3 and 4-4-2 all look so open when he plays it, I don't know what's wrong, Madrid was cutting through us like bread.

I swear if we lose another match to a scrub team this season because of his stupid formations I will retire this guy myself. No point in rotating, just play the starting 11 every match and hope madrid loses a match.

Cool said:

4-4-3

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The Madrid forum is that way.

Madrid might draw a match, but losing a match with their fixtures? I don't know about that...