Luis Enrique

FlaFCB said:

So you're not a Barça supporter, more of a "spanish teams" one. Makes no difference if you're foreign or not, when you actually supports a team.

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I am not really visiting other "spanish teams" forums, i dont bother going to their matches or bother specifically watching their games. I do not have home filled with other spanish teams stuff as well. And there is a big difference if u support a foreign or local team, because if it is local team, there are far more things that make you connect to the club, the local community, historical backround, most of your friends and all that. For a Catalan, supporting Barca (or well other catalan clubs) means alot more than it means for a random dude somewhere, who just likes the club because it has Messi, or had Ronaldinho, or players like Stoichkov, Romario, Rivaldo or how the team played when they were kids.
So no, i am definitely a barca fan.

God Serena said:

It's called a rivalry. It exists in every sport whether you have a connection to the political side or not. You're hardly even a Barca fan saying stuff like this. Imagine a Chelsea fan rooting for Arsenal to win the CL against Juve just because they like English football more

What a joke.

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Majority of the fans of English teams i know always support other English teams in European competitions. It may be different for actual brits living in England, dunno listening to commentaries in big European matches i always feel that at least commentators are pretty much biased towards any british teams.
Rivalries are fine, like i said, on most of cases i would rather see them fail, but it does not matter to me incase do not win La Liga, if its Atletico or Real, who does win it.

I could understand critique after the Bilbao game, as the last 10 minutes were kinda sad to watch as most of team was just walking around opposition doing no runs or even shooting and that being 2 men up, also subs should have been done earlier.
Vs Villareal all i can see here is stubborn fans whining and crying because thats what they do. I failed to notice any real mistakes Lucho did against Villareal, it was just one of those games where things did no our way. We conceded because of very bad pass from Digne i believe in the left, which left us open for counter-attack, where our defenders were sloppy and their striker finished like what we have not seen from Suarez in quite a while. 1 shot, 1 goal.
How can coach be blamed if players lose ball all the time, even in not difficult positions, dont finish, hit post, give worst crosses (Neymar) etc. We had alot of nice runs from both sides this game, both wings were quite well involved, we didnt just randomly pass around, but took a shot if possible, were denied 2 penalties (granted, 1 decision went against Villareal as well).
Lucho also made necessary subs, actually even took a bold sub for once, bringing Arda for Digne etc.
But hey, its so popular to whine about him, so yea, keep on going.

LeeRomeno said:

Vs Villareal all i can see here is stubborn fans whining and crying because thats what they do. I failed to notice any real mistakes Lucho did against Villareal, it was just one of those games where things did no our way.

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That is indeed true, and even if he would have made a mistake, don't judge a coach on the short-term (1/2 games). HOWEVER, judge him on what is happening on the mid to longer term... And here, he is to blame imo, because over last years (especially 2016) we see we are more and more losing control over games, giving away midfield, etc... We are slowly, game by game, in small increments, becoming less of the footballing machine (team) we were, and turning into some individuals producing some magic. Too much reliance on MSN, and too few focus on dominiting the other team.

LeeRomeno said:

I could understand critique after the Bilbao game, as the last 10 minutes were kinda sad to watch as most of team was just walking around opposition doing no runs or even shooting and that being 2 men up, also subs should have been done earlier.
Vs Villareal all i can see here is stubborn fans whining and crying because thats what they do. I failed to notice any real mistakes Lucho did against Villareal, it was just one of those games where things did no our way. We conceded because of very bad pass from Digne i believe in the left, which left us open for counter-attack, where our defenders were sloppy and their striker finished like what we have not seen from Suarez in quite a while. 1 shot, 1 goal.
How can coach be blamed if players lose ball all the time, even in not difficult positions, dont finish, hit post, give worst crosses (Neymar) etc. We had alot of nice runs from both sides this game, both wings were quite well involved, we didnt just randomly pass around, but took a shot if possible, were denied 2 penalties (granted, 1 decision went against Villareal as well).
Lucho also made necessary subs, actually even took a bold sub for once, bringing Arda for Digne etc.
But hey, its so popular to whine about him, so yea, keep on going.

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Yeah, let's all be happy that we are in the third place right now. Yes, El Madrigal is the place where big teams lose the points, but we could have afforded to lose those points if we haven't lost 5 points against mid-table teams at Camp Nou(Alaves, Malaga) or 3 points against Celta when he benched fully fit Iniesta and Rakitic to play Gomes and Arda instead. Should we just forget about that as well and be happy that we created couple of good chances against Villareal?

It is not wrong to criticize Enrique, because he has made great results before! The results with him has been extraordinary, nobody says otherwise.
I think most in here would accept losing the league and CL if we played well, but didn't made in right in the end. Right now we are just playing worse than ever, and that makes it very hard to accept a trophy-less season, as it looks to be.

Nobody wants him to fail. Our players showed will yesterday, and that is very much needed to keep the hope alive. But the realistic assessment right now, is that we aren't going to keep up with RM. We need to get behind the players and really go for every chance, not give up in advance, but do we need to back the coach when there is no plan at all?

FlaFCB said:

Past glories really don't matter now. It's been going downhill for a year, his cycle is done. He shouldn't had renewed, and left last summer. But that rarely happens, leaving on a high.

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Past? This isn't wenger whos past glory is 10 years ago. He won a double last season and a treble before that. Sacking a manager even for a trophyless season after that will be forgiven in any club maybe even RM. Not to mention the season isn't even over yet and every one wants his head here. People have absolutely lost their minds here. Sacking lucho for this is going to make us look classless. I don't really care what people think about barcelona but this would really be classless and stupid to sack him after what he has done.

Now don't mistake me and think that I think he is a great manager. I have always considered him an average coach even after his achievements unlike most here who thought he was really good when we won so much silverware. When he came here we played shit for 6 months and turned god mode in the next six winning the treble. Then we played in god mode for the first 6 months of the last season and turned average suddenly for the next 6 and have been nothing special for these last 6 months too. Amongst all this time he has been the coach so is he great or is he bad? He is just a non-factor in our game and sacking him won't do shit unless you get a really really good coach which is not necessarry we will find.

Simeone, a top manager undoubtedly has always been great for atletico but like us atletico is right now way worse than us in the league and atletico have performed subpar for the last 6 months so should simeone be sacked? I know simeone is a much bigger influence for atletico but still.

Ups and downs are part of every team. For all you know we can turn god mode again and win a treble from here.

Fans are fickle, you just can't sack him like that after all he has given us.

If anyone has given us anything it's Messi. Not Pep not Lucho. Messi.

But yeah Lucho should be treated with respect as every Barca legend.

Ghostmaster said:

Yeah, let's all be happy that we are in the third place right now. Yes, El Madrigal is the place where big teams lose the points, but we could have afforded to lose those points if we haven't lost 5 points against mid-table teams at Camp Nou(Alaves, Malaga) or 3 points against Celta when he benched fully fit Iniesta and Rakitic to play Gomes and Arda instead. Should we just forget about that as well and be happy that we created couple of good chances against Villareal?

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Wait what? My point is that it is totally fine to give critique against his tactics, roster selection and other parts of coaching if they are really off in a game. But in this game, his part was fine and he was correct in his comments after game, we did not deserve points vs Celta, but we certainly did yesterday.

Neymessi said:

Past? This isn't wenger whos past glory is 10 years ago. He won a double last season and a treble before that. Sacking a manager even for a trophyless season after that will be forgiven in any club maybe even RM. Not to mention the season isn't even over yet and every one wants his head here. People have absolutely lost their minds here. Sacking lucho for this is going to make us look classless. I don't really care what people think about barcelona but this would really be classless and stupid to sack him after what he has done.

Now don't mistake me and think that I think he is a great manager. I have always considered him an average coach even after his achievements unlike most here who thought he was really good when we won so much silverware. When he came here we played shit for 6 months and turned god mode in the next six winning the treble. Then we played in god mode for the first 6 months of the last season and turned average suddenly for the next 6 and have been nothing special for these last 6 months too. Amongst all this time he has been the coach so is he great or is he bad? He is just a non-factor in our game and sacking him won't do shit unless you get a really really good coach which is not necessarry we will find.

Simeone, a top manager undoubtedly has always been great for atletico but like us atletico is right now way worse than us in the league and atletico have performed subpar for the last 6 months so should simeone be sacked? I know simeone is a much bigger influence for atletico but still.

Ups and downs are part of every team. For all you know we can turn god mode again and win a treble from here.

Fans are fickle, you just can't sack him like that after all he has given us.

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Big points for voice of reason! Agreed totally

LaPulga said:

That is indeed true, and even if he would have made a mistake, don't judge a coach on the short-term (1/2 games). HOWEVER, judge him on what is happening on the mid to longer term... And here, he is to blame imo, because over last years (especially 2016) we see we are more and more losing control over games, giving away midfield, etc... We are slowly, game by game, in small increments, becoming less of the footballing machine (team) we were, and turning into some individuals producing some magic. Too much reliance on MSN, and too few focus on dominiting the other team.

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Really? I am pretty sure our treble and big parts of double were due to brilliance of MSN and the reason why we lack now is because MSN is not that brilliant anymore. Dunno how big part Lucho plays there, but just saying at the end of treble season, the game like we had yesterday would have been probably 3-0 for us as our guys would have finished those chances.

BarçaBarça said:

It is not wrong to criticize Enrique, because he has made great results before! The results with him has been extraordinary, nobody says otherwise.
I think most in here would accept losing the league and CL if we played well, but didn't made in right in the end. Right now we are just playing worse than ever, and that makes it very hard to accept a trophy-less season, as it looks to be.

Nobody wants him to fail. Our players showed will yesterday, and that is very much needed to keep the hope alive. But the realistic assessment right now, is that we aren't going to keep up with RM. We need to get behind the players and really go for every chance, not give up in advance, but do we need to back the coach when there is no plan at all?

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I kinda agree.He will be our manager for the rest of the season whther we like it or not.You simply don't sack a "5/6 major trophies",regardless of whether he deserved this record.

Furthermore,despite playing really bad,i don't see us getting knocked out of both the CdR and the CL AND to mathematically lose the league any time soon,so there won't be a valud reason to sack him or for him to resign.

In other words,Lucho will stay,so the best we can do right now is support the team and hope that the players will find a solution themselves like 2014/15.Because Lucho clearly cannot.

BarçaBarça said:

It is not wrong to criticize Enrique, because he has made great results before! The results with him has been extraordinary, nobody says otherwise.
I think most in here would accept losing the league and CL if we played well, but didn't made in right in the end. Right now we are just playing worse than ever, and that makes it very hard to accept a trophy-less season, as it looks to be.

Nobody wants him to fail. Our players showed will yesterday, and that is very much needed to keep the hope alive. But the realistic assessment right now, is that we aren't going to keep up with RM. We need to get behind the players and really go for every chance, not give up in advance, but do we need to back the coach when there is no plan at all?

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Nothing wrong with criticism, I do critisize him too but most people here want him to resign now. This is a bit extreme and unrealistic giving that he only didn't win the UCL last season but won everything else in his first too seasons. People can argue it was MSN who won him, then some will say Pep won it too cuz of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.

LeeRomeno said:

Really? I am pretty sure our treble and big parts of double were due to brilliance of MSN and the reason why we lack now is because MSN is not that brilliant anymore. Dunno how big part Lucho plays there, but just saying at the end of treble season, the game like we had yesterday would have been probably 3-0 for us as our guys would have finished those chances.

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Yes, to an extent I agree, especially for treble season and first part of 2015-2016 season. Since Jan 2016 we almost lost league title, so I attribute that title mainly to performance in 2015. However, the reason why MSN can or can not shine, is not only individual performance, but also how dominant the team plays. See, that's how it should work : make the team work in order for MSN to shine. Not have the luck that MSN are shining (individual form), in order for team to win.

Still stand by my point that we see a less dominant Barça over the years, and that is not only due to luck or individual form. Remember games this season where Ter Stegen and Mascherano were just passing to each other, because midfielders did not want the ball. They did not want to be dominant, distribute & feed MSN. That's where I blame Lucho (partly, also of course board & transfers made).

And Lucho was one of my childhood heroes, don't have a grudge on him at all, just don't think he's the type of manager which should be at Barça (anymore) after this season. Also, do not want to take credit away from him regarding titles won, but we need to evolve if we want to stay on top of footballing world.

To back up my 'dominance decline' statement:

goals against :

2014-15 LaLiga 21
2015-16 LaLiga 29
2016-17 LaLiga 17 (not even halfway the season)

You might argue our defence is less, but I don't agree with that.

I'd attribute that to our dominance/control over the game getting less & less.

khaled_a_d said:

Perhaps he is like many coaches (and every one in the game) will have his bad moments and that doesn't take anything from what he achieved?
Coaches are just like the players,they can't retain their performance all the time.
Wenger was once a coach that every club in the world were after him,now he is at least half decade of being hated by a good portion of his fans and other clubs making jokes of him.
SAF went dry around 2003-2006. Many Manu fans wanted him out saying he was gr8 but outdated and reached a point that he can't give them anything any more,rebounded and had his best time afterwards. We had that too with Crujif,Rijkaard,LVG. Pep was smart enough to know he was on this way and even admitted his last year was mistake and should have resigned after 3rd year. It isn't like Pep is doing better at City right now nor that Lucho didn't out coach less than 2 years ago and even win the group with him this year while Pep spending zillions with City on Stones ,Sane and glass man Gundogan.
Simple as it is,being bad now doesn't mean you weren't gr8 before.

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Yeah, was just a rant.

However while it seems like his time here is over, and it definitely should be. He still has time to rectify the situation somewhat. He probably should very soon or else he is going to lose the players.

LaPulga said:

Yes, to an extent I agree, especially for treble season and first part of 2015-2016 season. Since Jan 2016 we almost lost league title, so I attribute that title mainly to performance in 2015. However, the reason why MSN can or can not shine, is not only individual performance, but also how dominant the team plays. See, that's how it should work : make the team work in order for MSN to shine. Not have the luck that MSN are shining (individual form), in order for team to win.

Still stand by my point that we see a less dominant Barça over the years, and that is not only due to luck or individual form. Remember games this season where Ter Stegen and Mascherano were just passing to each other, because midfielders did not want the ball. They did not want to be dominant, distribute & feed MSN. That's where I blame Lucho (partly, also of course board & transfers made).

And Lucho was one of my childhood heroes, don't have a grudge on him at all, just don't think he's the type of manager which should be at Barça (anymore) after this season. Also, do not want to take credit away from him regarding titles won, but we need to evolve if we want to stay on top of footballing world.

To back up my 'dominance decline' statement:

goals against :

2014-15 LaLiga 21
2015-16 LaLiga 29
2016-17 LaLiga 17 (not even halfway the season)

You might argue our defence is less, but I don't agree with that.

I'd attribute that to our dominance/control over the game getting less & less.

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I do not think it is wise to discuss how much of MSNs decline (and im mainly talking about Suarez and Neymar, as Messi has been good) this season has been due to rest of the team, Luchos tactics and how much due to their own personal form, because it is really hard to get any proof to support any numbers. I did compare last 3 season statistics to see anything and here is what i found out:

Our shots per game have been very stable (for each stats i will give 3 numbers, which represent treble, double and current season numbers in same order), (16,4; 15,9; 16,6). Actually this season we have had more shots per game then in previous 2. What is already worrying is shots on target (7,2; 7; 6,1). This means that our shots are just worse and off target more often. There are no real differences in from where the shots are made, in all seasons majority has come from inside the penalty area (9,8; 9,8; 10,3), so we are shooting from closer range, yet sitll not hitting target.

There are no big differences in tribbling (13,9; 12,6; 14,5) or fouls attracted (14,7; 14,7; 15,8). It is actually best numbers for this season, meaning we are getting more free kicks and also doing well in getting pass the players. Our passing % is also quite similar (88,2; 86,8; 87%), offsides per game aer the same.

So making conclusions from attacking stats is that in reality we are not making as much from our chances as we have been before. There are no real differences in action zones as well.

It is a bit different in defensive stats. Here we can see some clear trends. First of all fouls per game (9,8; 10,1; 11,4). We are fouling continuously more and more. Secondly interceptions per game (13,1; 14,9; 12,2). Here we can see very big difference compared to last season. Another stat making treble season different is tackles per game (21,1; 17,6, 18,2). Clearly on different level. From what i can analyze, i would say that our defensive efforts have been lacking, we are not as good in tackling, we cause more fouls and do not intercept as we could 2 seasons ago. In addition lets take another interesting stat: aerials won (10,3; 9,9; 8,6). This is extremely worrying trends, we do not win enough headers and this is quite surprising considering we have actually i believe a bit taller squad vs 2015 one. Last but not least, we are receiving more shots, but its actually lower vs last season (8; 9,6; 8,8).

So my conclusion would be that current season we miss those things a) sharpness from forwards and finishing b) poor heading c) less tackles and interceptions, more fouls,
Also we concede more goals while receiving same shots, so either all opponent strikers have magically improved, or there is some truth in Ter Stegen critique.

Still quite a lot can be tracked down to player individual performances and this is the main reason why i refuse to blame Lucho for everything and want him gone. I dont think he is a genius or mastermind, but i do think he should deserve a chance to end this season and should be judged then. He has turned the ship around once and there noone who can say he cannot do it again. Better shape for strikers, fix the defense and results will come. If results will come, Real will feel pressure finally and if they feel pressure, chokes will start to come, like us at the end of last season.

And yes i do also agree Lucho has been stupid in several games, he can be directly blamed for several results due to poor subs and overall wrong approach to game, but is also down to 2 of our biggest stars being really bad compared to their abilities.

LeeRomeno said:

Wait what? My point is that it is totally fine to give critique against his tactics, roster selection and other parts of coaching if they are really off in a game. But in this game, his part was fine and he was correct in his comments after game, we did not deserve points vs Celta, but we certainly did yesterday.

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And my point is that many complain exactly about that, - his decisions, tactics and bad signings that led to this game. He put himself in a position where he was forced to win against very tough defensive team because of the mistakes he made earlier in the season and he couldn't. And now even Pique says that the team needs to change a lot of things, which says a lot about the state the team is in right now.

LeeRomeno said:

but i do think he should deserve a chance to end this season and should be judged then.

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I agree here, don't worry, he still has time to turn things around in the next half season. But, would it be season-end now, I'd say out... Time for a wind of change. Bring back sharpness & fresh tactical ideas.

LeeRomeno said:

Wait what? My point is that it is totally fine to give critique against his tactics, roster selection and other parts of coaching if they are really off in a game. But in this game, his part was fine and he was correct in his comments after game, we did not deserve points vs Celta, but we certainly did yesterday.

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How did we deserve points? Based on what? We again had shitty performance and we basicaly didn't create a single chance entire game. So no, we didn't deserve a win yesterday. We got what we deserved.