Luis Enrique

ini4ever said:

You must not be serious, are you ?
Let's take a look at 2011-12 squad , we've got Xavi, iniesta, Busi, Keita and Thiago if we don't consider Cesc signing,so before doing that we had only 5 midfielders and hell surely we know 3 of them are starter without any question just like MSN today. and Keita was more used for defensive stuff plus Thiago was only 20-21 years old that time
you don't want to tell me we didn't need more signing for midfield , do you ?
And... And that's not even important here ( Cesc signing ) because the reason why Thiago left was first himself second the board didn't take care of him as they should have. ( I don't even mention Thiago was left in 2012-13 so if you have any problem with given minutes you certainly should blame Tito too but obviously you don't )

Btw I think he was given enough minutes for a 21 years old guy ( 45 matches under Pep and 36 matches under Tito ) , especially when you see there is a fucking brilliant trio in your team.

It's becoming more funny as you guys trying to search every moment happened back in the day to blame Pep, disgraceful.

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How should the board have treated Thiago?

If anything they treated him too well and gave conditions for a fairly easy way out if not getting minutes he wanted.

ini4ever said:

You must not be serious, are you ?
Let's take a look at 2011-12 squad , we've got Xavi, iniesta, Busi, Keita and Thiago if we don't consider Cesc signing,so before doing that we had only 5 midfielders and hell surely we know 3 of them are starter without any question just like MSN today. and Keita was more used for defensive stuff plus Thiago was only 20-21 years old that time
you don't want to tell me we didn't need more signing for midfield , do you ?
And... And that's not even important here ( Cesc signing ) because the reason why Thiago left was first himself second the board didn't take care of him as they should have. ( I don't even mention Thiago was left in 2012-13 so if you have any problem with given minutes you certainly should blame Tito too but obviously you don't )

Btw I think he was given enough minutes for a 21 years old guy ( 45 matches under Pep and 36 matches under Tito ) , especially when you see there is a fucking brilliant trio in your team.

It's becoming more funny as you guys trying to search every moment happened back in the day to blame Pep, disgraceful.

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Cesc being here was one of the reasons for Thiago leaving. Cesc got minutes Thiago could have had. Then pep left and tito preferred Cesc. So did the board. And they preferred to sell Thiago, in the end. Things could had been different to Thiago, if Cesc never came back.

JamDav1982 said:

How should the board have treated Thiago?

If anything they treated him too well and gave conditions for a fairly easy way out if not getting minutes he wanted.

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I said TWO reasons, One of them is himself , Surely there isn't only one reason to leave a club like Barca. I don't give a fuck about Thiago because he could've stayed one more season and takes his reward for his patience where soon Xavi's retirement was about to happen.
But there is absolutely no relation to Pep as this happened.

Flavia said:

Cesc being here was one of the reasons for Thiago leaving. Cesc got minutes Thiago could have had. Then pep left and tito preferred Cesc. So did the board. And they preferred to sell Thiago, in the end. Things could had been different to Thiago, if Cesc never came back.

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So I got this, counting on 4 midfielders for a long season coming ahead. where one of them is only 20 years old.

ini4ever said:

I said TWO reasons, One of them is himself , Surely there isn't only one reason to leave a club like Barca. I don't give a fuck about Thiago because he could've stayed one more season and takes his reward for his patience where soon Xavi's retirement was about to happen.
But there is absolutely no relation to Pep as this happened.



So I got this, counting on 4 midfielders for a long season coming ahead. where one of them is only 20 years old.

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Four CMs of that level was never going to last.

Why do you think Thiago left if not for the competition?

JamDav1982 said:

Four CMs of that level was never going to last.

Why do you think Thiago left if not for the competition?

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They were, It's not something unpredictable as Xavi was getting closer to his retirement.
First of all let's be clear here [MENTION=1378]Aryagorn[/MENTION] said that as he thinks like that because of less playing time as [MENTION=20103]Flavia[/MENTION] does. And surprisingly we were to play about 62-64 matches as we were going to face 3 cups more that season. Thiago got 45 matches, Cesc 48 matches. so if you want to blame Pep for Thiago at least try to do it in another way not bringing up 'minutes' excuse.
You can do it anyway ( blame Pep ) but at least do it in a proper way or giving some personal reasons ffs.

And about your question, tell me why a 20 years old guy wouldn't work harder and wait one or two more seasons to become starter ?

ini4ever said:

They were, It's not something unpredictable as Xavi was getting closer to his retirement.
First of all let's be clear here [MENTION=1378]Aryagorn[/MENTION] said that as he thinks like that because of less playing time as [MENTION=20103]Flavia[/MENTION] does. And surprisingly we were to play about 62-64 matches as we were going to face 3 cups more that season. Thiago got 45 matches, Cesc 48 matches. so if you want to blame Pep for Thiago at least try to do it in another way not bringing up 'minutes' excuse.
You can do it anyway ( blame Pep ) but at least do it in a proper way or giving some personal reasons ffs.

And about your question, tell me why a 20 years old guy wouldn't work harder and wait one or two more seasons to become starter ?

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Xavi wasnt going to be replaced that summer though and was in team on merit.

I am saying Thiago left for guaranteed first team football at one of biggest teams in europe.

Never mentioned minutes and I think Thiago got enough minutes but was fourth choice on performance and knew it.

The increased competition of Cesc put Thiago further from a starting spot at that point and in future.

Thiago was 22 not 20.

Why do you think he left?

ini4ever said:

So I got this, counting on 4 midfielders for a long season coming ahead. where one of them is only 20 years old.

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4 midfielders was for just 2 positions.... Xavi, Iniesta, Keita and Thiago. Keita never was used as a substitute for busi, even if he was it was probably out of compulsion but not for providing rest to Busi or anything. He was never considered a Defensive midfielder period.

So yeah, we never needed Cesc for rotation like we did for MSN last season!


And oh yeah.... People would never ever blame Tito for Thiago. Should not either. The kid had his head turned and Tito did a great thing by not giving him minutes just for the sake of it or to break the stupid clause.

ini4ever said:

So I got this, counting on 4 midfielders for a long season coming ahead. where one of them is only 20 years old.

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Yes, that makes sense. That's the thing. Pep didn't count on Thiago alone, he brought Cesc. That ultimately led to Thiago leaving. He had Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc ahead of him. And Pep liked Thiago, but Tito wasn't as keen about him.

But in the end, Pep bought a player, instead of fully trusting a 20-21 year-old. Some here insist as if it was some kind of blasphemy when Lucho does that. I think it's best to loan Samper for one season, for example, then to let him rot in the bench and then want to leave, as Thiago did.

Thiago hasn't even proven that he's worth the tears that were spilled when he left.

People forget that Pep bought Fabregas as he was trying to evolve the team into a 3-4-3.

While he played that there was enough minutes to go around as more opportunity to play.

As season went on Pep moved away from that and back to a 4-3-3 formation and Thiago didnt feature as much.

Tito favoured going back to 4-3-3 and there was no way to keep four CMs that could have started for most top clubs in world happy.

Cesc was better than Thiago in Titos season and Thiago knew he was a long way from a starting place.

Flavia said:

Yes, that makes sense. That's the thing. Pep didn't count on Thiago alone, he brought Cesc. That ultimately led to Thiago leaving. He had Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc ahead of him. And Pep liked Thiago, but Tito wasn't as keen about him.

But in the end, Pep bought a player, instead of fully trusting a 20-21 year-old. Some here insist as if it was some kind of blasphemy when Lucho does that. I think it's best to loan Samper for one season, for example, then to let him rot in the bench and then want to leave, as Thiago did.

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JamDav1982 said:

Xavi wasnt going to be replaced that summer though and was in team on merit.


Why do you think he left?

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He wasn't that's for sure. As i said firstly because of himself , if he thinks he's going to be danger by one signing and give it up easily, well he better leaves. Because in a club like Barca there are always quality players in front of your face.
Secondly the board didn't care about him properly and if i recall correctly, they didn't even try to convince him to stay before his leaving, not in any way at all, like all big clubs do for their stars. they seemed happy over situation there was ( The best trio out there, 15 Trophies over 5 years and so on )

blasphemy , Ah I see, as I mentioned in Pep thread no matter which side you are ( Anti-Lucho or Anti-Pep ( I don't call it that way but hey. ) ) you can't state facts while they're nonsense. Am not really interested in those discussion when you pull out not much truth from your words.

So don't get me wrong, y'all are saying we didn't need Cecs ? because the signing would put Thiago as 4th sub. okay then Im gonna ignore the 64 matches supposed to be played even, so according to your logic, I assume you wouldn't support Arda/Gomes/Denis as well because it puts Rafinha as 4th 5th 6th no matter what sub place? Because we know whatever happens, Busi-Iniesta-Raki trio gonna be stater in Lucho's plan.


And don't you guys want to admit we lacked of quality benched-players last season due to +60 matches just like as 2011-12 season would've happened if we didn't sign Cesc too ? where all players were getting more fatigued as we were going close to end of the season.

Aryagorn;1681347 So yeah said:

needed[/B] Cesc for rotation like we did for MSN last season!

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So I assume you're against Paco signing now ?

Thiago left as he was guaranteed first team football for one of top teams in europe where at Barca he was not even the first back up.

Pep did nothing wrong in signing Cesc but it lead to the reason Thiago wanted to leave.

If the board really wanted to treat Thiago badly they could have insisted on him playing games to raise the buy out. They treated him too well if anything and it is not up to them to go make promises to him to stay when it was know at that point either Cesc or Thiago would leave.

Thiago had reached the stage it appealed to him to be a major player in a top side. Something that was far off at Barca.

If after years as mainly back up players Denis, Arda or Gomes get offers to go and be major players for european champions then compare.

Like two top GKs you are not going to keep four top CMs happy.

Anyway this is way off topic for Lucho thread.

I wonder if Thiago would've been promoted had Pep signed Pirlo in 2010.

ini4ever said:

So don't get me wrong, y'all are saying we didn't need Cecs ? because the signing would put Thiago as 4th sub. okay then Im gonna ignore the 64 matches supposed to be played even, so according to your logic, I assume you wouldn't support Arda/Gomes/Denis as well because it puts Rafinha as 4th 5th 6th no matter what sub place? Because we know whatever happens, Busi-Iniesta-Raki trio gonna be stater in Lucho's plan.

And don't you guys want to admit we lacked of quality benched-players last season due to +60 matches just like as 2011-12 season would've happened if we didn't sign Cesc too ? where all players were getting more fatigued as we were going close to end of the season.

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No. I understand very well why Pep signed Cesc. And why Lucho brought Denis and Gomes. And I agree with both of them doing that. This was an ungoing discussion in other threads too, and perhaps my pov is not very clear here. But I'm not anti-pep nor anti-lucho. I just don't deify Pep. And I also don't think Lucho has been treating the cantera as bad as some claim. There aren't many talents coming from there now, surely not of Xavi-Iniesta caliber. And Lucho is giving them chances.

Flavia said:

No. I understand very well why Pep signed Cesc. And why Lucho brought Denis and Gomes. And I agree with both of them doing that. This was an ungoing discussion in other threads too, and perhaps my pov is not very clear here. But I'm not anti-pep nor anti-lucho. I just don't deify Pep. And I also don't think Lucho has been treating the cantera as bad as some claim. There aren't many talents coming from there now, surely not of Xavi-Iniesta caliber. And Lucho is giving them chances.

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Neither do i, I didn't mean you particular, I meant general as we're seeing here some people try to bash Pep with absurd facts. For your second statement I do think a bit different, as I explained in Pep thread ( Pedro for e.g )
but that doesn't mean Lucho is a bad manager either, and about giving 'chances' I think the bloody key is here that is not about giving chances at all, it's about developing your players and make them better and this is something unique that most managers aren't capable of. just like Mou or Carlo they're not good at that either but they do bring trophies as Lucho does and that'd be enough for some fans already.