Rafinha Alcantara

Messi983 said:

Of course. We'll make a 24M profit on JC if he'll be "sold" for 30M.

Click to expand...

Huh? I thought it will be a direct swap with no money changing hands?

Luftstalag14 said:

Huh? I thought it will be a direct swap with no money changing hands?

Click to expand...

I've explained this in the Transfers and Rumours thread...

Messi983 said:

And they "help" us.

From what I've read Cillessen-Neto "swap" will be evaulated at 30M€ from both clubs. In other words it would be the same as if we would sell them Jasper for 30M and then buy Neto for the same amount.

We bought JC for 15M in 2016 so his annual amortisation is 3M (15M divided by 5-year contract). After 3 years he's still worth 6M (unamortized value). If we "sell" him for 30M we'll make a 24M profit on him in the accounts. That's what Barça and many other clubs are concerned the most about in these last 10 days of the season/fiscal year. They are not as much worried about a cash flow.

So this deal will actually look better on our books than selling him for 20M would. But I don't think we even got a 20M offer, let alone a 30-40M like some people think. Benfica was the most interested club and they apparently offered around 12M. Everton could potentially be interested but only IF they would sell Pickford to United (and for that to happen DDG would first need to leave to PSG/other club and there is no guarantee this will happen in this transfer window but it certainly won't happen this month). JC also said a few weeks ago that he wants to play in a CL team (preferably from a top 5 league) so our options were limited from the start. We can't sell him to Everton or West Ham if he doesn't want to go there.

Click to expand...

Messi983 said:

I've explained this in the Transfers and Rumours thread...

Click to expand...

Thanks but what’s so scary about making 24m profit? Paying taxes on the proceeds you mean?

Luftstalag14 said:

Thanks but what’s so scary about making 24m profit? Paying taxes on the proceeds you mean?

Click to expand...

There is nothing scary about making a profit from "sellling" Cilllessen on the books. That's why the club will likely make this swap with Neto.

I've read we need to make 65M in sales (but this could be just a speculation by MD) before the end of this month to balance our books.

Now assuming we'll get 24M from Jasper, next most likely to leave is Gomes: his unamortized value is around 14M so if we sell him for 25M we'll have 11M benefit on him.

So JC+AG are 35M in total and we still need to find 30M somewhere.

Selling players like Denis (he was bought for cheap and is almost fully amortized) and La Masia players (Rafinha, Cucu, Miranda, Palencia) who we got for free would make us the most profit on the books because they have no amortization charges but obviously we probably won't get much for them on the market. Or someone like Raki who we also bought for cheap and he's been here for 5 years (by my quick calculation his unamortized value is around 4-5M since he has renewed his contract in 2017).

I don't know how exactly wages and other costs are included in FFP calculations so it's possible even if we won't make those 65M this month we still won't break FFP rules.

Messi983 said:

There is nothing scary about making a profit from "sellling" Cilllessen on the books. That's why the club will likely make this swap with Neto.

I've read we need to make 65M in sales (but this could be just a speculation by MD) before the end of this month to balance our books.

Now assuming we'll get 24M from Jasper, next most likely to leave is Gomes: his unamortized value is around 14M so if we sell him for 25M we'll have 11M benefit on him.

So JC+AG are 35M in total and we still need to find 30M somewhere.

Selling players like Denis (he was bought for cheap and is almost fully amortized) and La Masia players (Rafinha, Cucu, Miranda, Palencia) who we got for free would make us the most profit on the books because they have no amortization charges but obviously we probably won't get much for them on the market. Or someone like Raki who we also bought for cheap and he's been here for 5 years (by my quick calculation his unamortized value is around 4-5M since he has renewed his contract in 2017).

I don't know how exactly wages and other costs are included in FFP calculations so it's possible even if we won't make those 65M this month we still won't break FFP rules.

Click to expand...

I understand all of that, my question is, why don't we just sell Cillessen to Valencia for whatever amount and get the cash in return? Why do we forfeit the cash and get Neto in return? Unless we seriously think we couldn't get a better goal keeper for the same amount of money?

Luftstalag14 said:

I understand all of that, my question is, why don't we just sell Cillessen to Valencia for whatever amount and get the cash in return? Why do we forfeit the cash and get Neto in return? Unless we seriously think we couldn't get a better goal keeper for the same amount of money?

Click to expand...

Because Valencia most definitely wouldn't accept that. The whole point for them would be to balance their own books, so they need to sell as well.

With it basically being a swap deal in disguise the clubs can easily just move around a lot of money, but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't just offer Barca something like 24-30M (rumored fees i've seen) now for Cillessen if there wasn't the Neto deal in return.

Luftstalag14 said:

I understand all of that, my question is, why don't we just sell Cillessen to Valencia for whatever amount and get the cash in return? Why do we forfeit the cash and get Neto in return? Unless we seriously think we couldn't get a better goal keeper for the same amount of money?

Click to expand...

What [MENTION=22806]MTL_Barca[/MENTION] said.

Barça don't need cash, they want to balance the books and this apparent swap deal is the best way to do it over the next week.

We know JC is a very good GK but his market is probably much more limited than most people expect for different reasons. If some club would be offering 30M or even 20M I think we would already sold him. But Benfica's offer (around 10-12M according to rumours) was probably the best we got so far.

I don't believe Valencia can afford to pay 15-20M for a GK. They were probably hoping to sell Rodrigo for 70-80M so they would have money to improve the team (probably signing Maxi Gomez and a RB, CB and Parejo's backup) but there doesn't seem to be much market for him at the moment. Not at that price at least. Maybe something will happen in July when clubs will be more open to do deals but they'll probably need to lower asking price if they want to cash on Rodrigo. Or maybe they'll just keep him and sell Parejo to Barça instead.

Neto wants to leave and they would probably get around 10-15M for him on the market so "selling" to Barça for 30M (and at the same time replacing him with a better GK) is a better option for them.

As for Barça we can wait if something drastic happens on the GK market that would cause a domino effect (for example DDG to PSG, Pickford to United, JC to Everton as it was rumoured) but this is almost impossible to happen in June if at all this summer.

And if we decide not to do a swap JC-Neto it's questionable if we would really get 25-30M for Cillessen and if he would want to join a club like Everton who won't play in CL next year and very likely during his entire time at the club.

News is he's reached personal terms with Valencia. It's up to the two clubs to finalise the deal.

Good riddance.

He is the next in line. Come on Valencia!

Raketa10 said:

He is the next in line. Come on Valencia!

Click to expand...

All bound for Mu Mu Land

I say keep him unless it is at least 17 mil AND variables. I know not often since that horror show tackle from that Belgium prick, but when he is healthy he is very good for a bench player.

Arizona Scott said:

I say keep him unless it is at least 17 mil AND variables. I know not often since that horror show tackle from that Belgium prick, but when he is healthy he is very good for a bench player.

Click to expand...

noooo. I'd sell him asap. Even for anything less than 17m. He'll get injured again anyway.
With us supposedly promoting Puig, I dont think we can even fit Rafinha in the squad.

Sell. We are still overcrowded in the midfield and Rakitić already lowered the anchor. Someone needs to go.

Rafinha can play the wing, the other midfielders can't.

I am for selling, if for 17mil + variables.

otherwise I'd rather keep him--also gives more flex to sell Coutinho or Malcom if we get a great last minute big.

Puig isn't physically ready to play with top class men IMO

Valencia can pay up, but no sweetheart deals where we take the risk (nothing much upfront) and essentially under write them for a solid la liga talent so they get the benefit if he finally has a good spell in health..