3 - Gerard Pique

Trickykid said:

Messi and other seniors have all voiced their support. Are they all just praising him because they know they'll play?

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He's a player's coach, at least when it comes to the seniors.

Cannot let the players control the club and have a say in whether a manager stays or not. Judging from Valverde's comments I think he knows himself he has to deliver in the CL to keep his job.

If the players really want Valverde to stay they should help him by giving their best effort there.

eaman said:

We don't play shit football. Not as good as we used to but it's pretty hard to do when you don't have xavi,iniesta,alves,Neymar on the team at the same time like we used to. He plays the 433 constantly now but when you don't have as good quality you are not going to look as good

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One simple example - we don't move off the ball. Like AT ALL. Players don't make themselves available to play combos. Everybody is just standing around in the handball type of way. No one makes runs, no usage of width, no movement apart from individuals going on dribbles and then Messi/Dembele dribble/make through ball out of thin air out of their own volition. I still don't understand why it's this hard to continue using triangles without Pep? I mean, it's not rocket science.
Fake edit: oh i do know why we don't use it. Because our veterans have gone full Arda Turan mode and just don't want to run and Valverde is sheepish nobody with no authority and ability to instill structure in the overall play.
I can't believe that players, who won treble under Pep and Lucho, playing intense, proactive football are suddenly believing that we are playing "tremendously", while waiting for Messi to do all the job. They just don't give a fuck, that's all.

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Gnidrologist said:

One simple example - we don't move off the ball. Like AT ALL. Players don't make themselves available to play combos. Everybody is just standing around in the handball type of way. No one makes runs, no usage of width, no movement apart from individuals going on dribbles and then Messi/Dembele dribble/make through ball out of thin air out of their own volition. I still don't understand why it's this hard to continue using triangles without Pep? I mean, it's not rocket science.
Fake edit: oh i do know why we don't use it. Because our veterans have gone full Arda Turan mode and just don't want to run and Valverde is sheepish nobody with no authority and ability to instill structure in the overall play.
I can't believe that players, who won treble under Pep and Lucho, playing intense, proactive football are suddenly believing that we are playing "tremendously", while waiting for Messi to do all the job. They just don't give a fuck, that's all.

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We still play lovely football at times but just not consistently. Triangles were easy when you had xavi, alves and Messi on the right or iniesta, alba and maybe busquets joining in on the left. Maybe we'll get their again with a proper right back and a verratti type on the right and Arthur playing consistently. Spurs and inter away were games like under pep but it's just that consistency we can't seem to keep

Liverpool and City have inferior players to ours in most positions, but they don't have problem moving around, finding spaces. I don't believe this is player's faults. It must be manager. I agree that our CL games were better. Guess it makes everybody more intense subconsciously, but it's a sign of bad coach, that we can't move our asses in "lower tier" matches. It never works out well, when the team is trying to 'save energy' by playing lazy and shit. It's hard to suddenly change, when it matters. I still don't agree that we actually use space well. Team is quite (albeit less) static even those few decent matches.

Gnidrologist said:

Liverpool and City have inferior players to ours in most positions, but they don't have problem moving around, finding spaces. I don't believe this is player's faults. It must be manager. I agree that our CL games were better. Guess it makes everybody more intense subconsciously, but it's a sign of bad coach, that we can't move our asses in "lower tier" matches. It never works out well, when the team is trying to 'save energy' by playing lazy and shit. It's hard to suddenly change, when it matters. I still don't agree that we actually use space well. Team is quite (albeit less) static even those few decent matches.

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Liverpool don't play better football. They are a very direct team who rely heavily on the front 3 kinda like we used to when Neymar was here except we played better football all round. And peps teams always play better football than other teams and they have one or two better players and players close enough in quality to us.

I disagree. When i watch current liv the most striking thing that always gets me on their side is not the fact that they have competent attackers, but how they move the ball around pitch and how they move along themselves to always creates a an illusion of superiority. They certainly don't poses more technical player than us. Even likes of Roberto would be starting line up guy for them, because of his intelligence. The difference is in constant movement and finding loos spaces to exploit and drive the play proactively. We are basically slowing the game down all the time to be safe from attacks, but don't seem to have idea what to do with the ball to get goals. That's why everybody is passing to Messi out of sheer lack of ideas and attacking templates.

Gnidrologist said:

I disagree. When i watch current liv the most striking thing that always gets me on their side is not the fact that they have competent attackers, but how they move the ball around pitch and how they move along themselves to always creates a an illusion of superiority. They certainly don't poses more technical player than us. Even likes of Roberto would be starting line up guy for them, because of his intelligence. The difference is in constant movement and finding loos spaces to exploit and drive the play proactively. We are basically slowing the game down all the time to be safe from attacks, but don't seem to have idea what to do with the ball to get goals. That's why everybody is passing to Messi out of sheer lack of ideas and attacking templates.

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Liverpool this season are alot less gung ho and more cautious in their play. When we perform at our best like the spurs and inter games we are better to watch than any of their best games

He's bounced back quite well from his early season nightmare. Was great again today

Liked his last 3 games. Still early but he's slowly going to his best form.

Gnidrologist said:

Liverpool and City have inferior players to ours in most positions..... It must be manager..

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1st part I don't think this is true, second part partially true. Def think Klopp and Pep are better tactically, and in motivating and preparing their players. But then I think these are the best 2 managers in the world. Is there a better out of work manager (or easy to get) than Valverde, maybe, maybe not, my judgement is still out (although his rotation decisions very much frustrate me).

Let's look at Barca v Liverpool (one could take issues with positioning, but I am going with more where they play most often, e.g., Salah has been positioned more up field than Firmino).
Also in some cases like the Liverpool midfield and Barca attacking mid and left wing and right back, there isn't always one bonafide starter. Also with both teams having injured CB fitness makes a difference there--but Gomez should return in a week or two and we still don't know on Umtiti.

CF Suarez v Salah--could call this a draw or edge Salah now that Suarez is getting older.
RW Messi v Firmino--Messi is the best player in the world, but Firmino is still very, very good
LW Dembele v Mane--edge in all around/complete game is Mane.
CM Arthur v Wijnaldum--Gini is the better all around player, the only sure fire starting in Liverpools midfield
CM Rakitic v Milner--Rakitic (but Fabinho may soon be the Liverpool starter and he adds a different dimension)
CM Busi v Henderson--Busi
RB Roberto v Alexander-Arnold--TAA is a more complete right back than either of the two for Barca
CB Pique v Gomez--Pique, but Gomez is one of the best young defenders in the world, very pacy and good skills
CB Lenglet v VVD--VVD is the best CB in the world
LB Alba v Robertson--Alba, but Robertson is the best all <25 LB in the world. Very complete and relentless player.
GK MATS v Alisson--MATS but close, these are the two GK in the world in terms of shot stopping, using their feet and ball distribution.

In summation, their is not much difference in the squad on individual talent. About even forwards, Barca better midfield, Liverpool better backline.

If they run into each other in the CL there talent is real close. What Barca really has going for them is Messi, who at times can ruin another teams preparation.
What Liverpool has going for them is Klopp, and a more drilled and coherent way to play. I think if you match up City you get a similar kind of comparison, except
City has the better midfield, with maybe even overall in the backline as Barca.

They are comparitively almost as good as us then (bar Messi, who is our cheat code), but play around two magnitudes better football. We only play "some nice football here and there", because our cheat code and occasionally Dembele or even more occasionally Suarez can dish out a performance that none in Liv or City ever could even at their best form. Our bread and butter football sucks compared to theirs though so it's still manager. I mean, our players often don't know what to do, it's clearly visible. I never saw that kind of cluelessness, and shapelessness with the former teams even when they underperform.

Gnidrologist said:

They are comparitively almost as good as us then (bar Messi, who is our cheat code), but play around two magnitudes better football. We only play "some nice football here and there", because our cheat code and occasionally Dembele or even more occasionally Suarez can dish out a performance that none in Liv or City ever could even at their best form. Our bread and butter football sucks compared to theirs though so it's still manager. I mean, our players often don't know what to do, it's clearly visible. I never saw that kind of cluelessness, and shapelessness with the former teams even when they underperform.

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No we play better football than them mostly. Liverpool have played some very poor games this year. They also lost 3 away champions league games. 1 to red star. City are definitely the best footballing team at the moment

eaman said:

No we play better football than them mostly. Liverpool have played some very poor games this year. They also lost 3 away champions league games. 1 to red star. City are definitely the best footballing team at the moment

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The red star match was bad for them (@psg and @napoli were 1 goal matches) but city and barca have had bad league games, all evens out.

Barca and city are the best attacking teams. (Barca bc messi and city bc pep and collective attacking talent in forwards and midfield)

Liverpool has the best backline/goalie combination and a brilliant front line. Pedestrian midfield and not very attacking oriented. Fyi salah is the next best playmaker of these clubs outside messi, he can also mess up an opponents scheme.

I think these teams starting 11s are all close in overall talent. If these teams play each other it will be does the best player win or better coach. Pickem all ways I think if drawn against each other, and one should get the CL trophy.

surprised there's no discussion about Yaya's comments