Sergio Ramos
- Thread starter Aryagorn
- Start date
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Well you said your a cunt. My a cunt? That makes no sense.
That's why I said you're a cunt. All this gibberish.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Yip you made no sense.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Lol at that pathetic excuse for "meeting the standard of proof"
Concussion testing protocol done on professional athletes (NFL, NBA, football) is far more extensive than what is performed on your everyday joe. There's multiple different levels of screening, only a few of which involve the athlete himself stating their symptoms (the part that can be "faked"). The rest of the screening is done observationally by the medical professional. Unless the athlete is putting on an Oscar worthy performance with specific mannerisms to a number of different tests (26 out of 30 as reported for Karius) it isn't easily "faked".
Here's an example of a protocol used in the NFL to help diagnose a concussion: http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2017/04/26/bjsports-2017-097506SCAT5.full.pdf
Keep in mind that ENTIRE test is simply a tool, and not singlehandedly capable of providing diagnosis. They have multiple other tests done in a lab/office as well I'd imagine, especially for professional athletes. Especially when it's been done over a period of days in a hospital and not just in the moment.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Can be fairly easily faked.
I am going with Karius hamming it up after that shit performance.
I am going with Karius hamming it up after that shit performance.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Never started either argument here but I take the credit if you want to give it.
BarçaBarça
New member
Yeah, but surely you can actknowledge how infuriating it is as a barca-fan to watch that kind of situations?
Grey-area situations involving Ramos, who wouldn't go out of his way to give his team a clear advantage, is very hard to swallow in the most important game all year.
It is a champions league final, and Ramos is involved in 2 situations which single-handedly decides the game: the injury to Liverpools best striker and only hope to win the game against the much better team, and the concussion, which indirectly hands the win to you through 2 crucial freak-mistakes you won't see in 99% of all matches.
To sum up: Real was the better, more experienced team with way more quality than the underdog, but won through 2 freak-occurences that almost never happens, due to something that other days could have been judged otherwise by the ref. That is infuriating. If Real won more games convincingly I guarantee you Ramos would be cut a lot more slack for these instances.
But when they end up deciding the most important game of the year and define Reals whole season and how Zidane is looked upon as a coach and this whole Real in CL-era, it is very hard just to let them be what they are: Grey-area situations which tipped the tie in Reals favour in freaky way.
El Gato
Villarato!
That's an honest assessment of it that I'm happy to agree with. Ramos doesn't help himself in the slightest, we all know that, but the smear campaign to this level of ridiculousness makes things go beyond the world of sport. Papers in Spain reported stories leaked supposedly from his brother-agent saying that his family had to change phone numbers, because of the amount of death threats from those who react emotionally.
Sport is cruel, but if situation is grey it can't be called black just because you don't like it.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Conversely, you can't perpetually extend the benefit of doubt to label everything as grey just because you don't want it to be called black.
Ramos has a more prolific history than pretty much anybody when it comes to rough, dirty plays outside the rules. He holds a number of red card records, plenty of clips of his violent play littered around the internet, etc. Pattern of behavior is one of the key things to look at in a situation like this, and you literally could not be more guilty than Ramos in this regard. He's a standard setter when it comes to foul play, and has been so for his whole career.
Next, people in football are FAR too reserved in assigning intent to actions such as this even when it's clear. For reference, in the NBA both Zaza and Kelly Olynyk are (rightfully) seen as thugs for their injury-causing fouls on Kawhi Leonard and Kevin Love respectively. Both of those actions are condemned by the ENTIRE community, players/fans/pundits/etc. alike, as deliberately dirty actions outside of the play where the perpetrator knew exactly what they were doing. Yet both of those actions are quite easily "more grey" than the Ramos tackle. The intent was less clear there than it was in this case, yet Zaza/Olynyk are renowned thugs while Ramos is just another physical player who got in an unfortunate situation? Insanity.
If you told me to imagine a footballer deliberately injuring another player, Ramos's challenge would look like a textbook example. If you look at that play and say it WASN'T a deliberate action, then I genuinely don't know what kind of murder a player would have to commit for it to be seen as intentionally dirty. Where does the line have to be drawn? Because to exceed that level of violence in one play, one would pretty much have to go beat a player into injury or make a two-footed dive into a standing off ball player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V16OnVst0bc
I've read people say "Salah started pulling/locking arms with him first" which couldn't be further from the truth. Dude was ahead of Ramos the entire time trying to create separation and control the ball, barely ever touching him. The illegal contact was created by Ramos. From there he goes over the shoulder, hooks the arm and locks it, then wrenches his whole body in the other direction bringing Salah down and landing on him. He maintained the arm-lock the whole way as well.
If this cannot be seen as "dirty" then that sets an absurdly violent precedent for the sport. That a player with a near infinite history of malicious play can continue to do whatever shady shit they want on the pitch and still not have their intentions/motives questioned. What more would a player have to prove over their career AND in the clip of that action for it to be deemed dirty?
Because that action was not an accident by any stretch of the imagination, and Ramos is maybe the LEAST deserving individual of the benefit of doubt in the entire sport.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Salah did lock arms first and it was Salah who tripped Ramos.
From there Ramos held his arm and most likely taking chance to injure him but this idea that Ramos grabbed his arm and slammed him to the ground is bollocks.
From there Ramos held his arm and most likely taking chance to injure him but this idea that Ramos grabbed his arm and slammed him to the ground is bollocks.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Can't believe I'm still responding to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmX_Cu9W_Yc
Here's a better replay. From 0:23 to 0:27, you can slow motion scrub through in microseconds using the "," and "." keys if you're really that hard of sight.
Ramos clearly comes in over the back first. Also in the non-replay clip of that play, you can clearly see Salah separated from him by about a meter and controlling a loose ball with his head. Why on earth would he go back to lock arms with Ramos? He didn't initiate the action whatsoever.
There's even better footage out there somewhere that I've seen. Can't find it on youtube but wouldn't be surprised to see video like that taken down to prevent further outcry.
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