Gareth Bale

Deco 20

Deco 20

Scandinavian 101
Yeah, I know. Had to take the opportunity ;)

I just don't see him fitting in... He won't be given space and his combination play probably isn't up to the necessary standard. His crossing won't be of much use and he isn't renowned for his defensive abilities. Square peg in a round hole IMO. And then there's the price.
 
P

Pepe Silvia

Active member
Metaphysical said:
it's on now!

#BALEGRANA

make it happen, Zubi!
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Are you still trying to convince yourself that Bale is a good defender? Last thing we need right now is another winger. We're stocked, and on D he is the stink. This has nightmare written all over it. Even if we did convert him back to a LB, you think he will be happy with that? I mean for the last few seasons he's been an all out winger/attacker, why the hell would he want to change that? He might pass off as okay for a little while, but he'll be unhappy. We need a pure defender. Tall, physical, solid defender not named Gareth Bale.
 
T

Theconomist

New member
I never understood the absurdity of linking us with Bale.
Just because Pep is gone doesn't mean we will suddenly change the way we play.
Bale could work as a left forwardish , would never work as a left back.

Start linking us to Lahm please.
 
Metaphysical

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Catalonian Devil said:
Except Abidal was an actual defender...
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Bale made his name as a promising young LB.

only at Spurs, where 'Arry doesn't have any imagination or balls, did he become a LW.

Deco 20 said:
I just don't see him fitting in... He won't be given space and his combination play probably isn't up to the necessary standard. His crossing won't be of much use and he isn't renowned for his defensive abilities. Square peg in a round hole IMO. And then there's the price.
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1. giving him space is why you play him at LB, not LW. our LB's always have space to play in if you notice (unless we're doing some tika-taka on the sideline) and Adriano often finds room in which to surge forward and effect games. Bale would excel at this and help us break down parked defences with his driving play.

2. his low crosses certainly would. and besides that we've shown this season that we can score from crosses if the delivery is right (Cesc & Messi especially).

3. defensively he would need to improve, for sure, but then so did Abidal when we signed him. for two years he continually stood off his wingers and failed to mark them, or was caught sleeping by blindside runs. he improved and that's despite being in his late 20's/early 30's. he used to be a defender, remember, all the raw defensive tools are there.

4. price is an issue. but he'd be worth it considering his quality and his age.

5. he's not the PERFECT signing, that'd be Vertonghen. but Vertonghen wants to play for Spurs for some reason. so fuckit, let's get this guy.
 
Catalonian Devil

Catalonian Devil

Shukran Pep
Metaphysical said:
Bale made his name as a promising young LB.

only at Spurs, where 'Arry doesn't have any imagination or balls, did he become a LW.
.
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Not really, can't really blame Harry for Bale being a completely inept LB at top flight level football.

Don't get me wrong I love the kid and have always been a fan since his early days, but the fact that he hasn't played as a LB for 2 years now has nothing to do with coaching. Bale's offensive attributes were put to much better use playing a more advanced role. He isn't playing in LW just because he sucks as a defender, but because he truly is a great winger.
 
Metaphysical

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Pepe Silvia said:
Are you still trying to convince yourself that Bale is a good defender? Last thing we need right now is another winger. We're stocked, and on D he is the stink. This has nightmare written all over it. Even if we did convert him back to a LB, you think he will be happy with that? I mean for the last few seasons he's been an all out winger/attacker, why the hell would he want to change that? He might pass off as okay for a little while, but he'll be unhappy. We need a pure defender. Tall, physical, solid defender not named Gareth Bale.
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I didn't say he was a good defender.

I've said all along he'd need work.

but he has the potential and the ability to absolutely own that position. and as the only perfect signing wants to go elsewhere, let's get this kid in.

and yes, he likes to attack, but he's had a lazy hands-off manager who has just let him do what he wants, and he will have seen that this doesn't really work. sure, at first he may be put out, and for sure he would have to buy in and commit to defending, but why wouldn't he do that? what narcissism have you seen from the kid that makes you believe he'd be so arrogant? he tracks back plenty for Spurs, despite the energy he exudes attacking. and that's Spurs. he'd be coming to the best team in the World if he moved here, it'd be an enormous chance for him to shine. and he'd soon see that LB is the best position for him anyway. it gives him much more space in which to hurtle.
 
Metaphysical

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Catalonian Devil said:
Not really, can't really blame Harry for Bale being a completely inept LB at top flight level football.

Don't get me wrong I love the kid and have always been a fan since his early days, but the fact that he hasn't played as a LB for 2 years now has nothing to do with coaching. Bale's offensive attributes were put to much better use playing a more advanced role. He isn't playing in LW just because he sucks as a defender, but because he truly is a great winger.
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he's not suited to being a winger, though. not at all. there's a reason why the likes of Gretar Steinsson and Phil Neville were able to comprehensively shut him down during his rise to prominence last Autumn.

look at his runs, and his crosses. they are PURE left-back. it's all late surges, big lung-busting sprints, and thwacked first-time crosses or shots. he's not great at creating his own space or beating a man with a trick (attributes of a winger).

he only works as a winger for Spurs because they play on the break. and even then his influence has gone down since they began to dominate possession and play in smaller spaces closer to their opponents goal.

in many ways he is similar to Tello. he needs lots of space to make the most of his skills - and as a winger he's not always going to get that space. as a fullback, however, that space will be there for him much more often.

as for his defending: he was 19/20 and playing infrequently for a crap Tottenham side. at 23, in a side like ours, he would be better even if he would have to improve first. look at the difference between 22 y/o Caceres and 24 y/o Caceres, for example. defenders get better as they get older - very few young players are genuinely great at defending. Bale would improve with time and training, and his potential is off the scale.
 
Catalonian Devil

Catalonian Devil

Shukran Pep
Metaphysical said:
he's not suited to being a winger, though. not at all. there's a reason why the likes of Gretar Steinsson and Phil Neville were able to comprehensively shut him down during his rise to prominence last Autumn.

look at his runs, and his crosses. they are PURE left-back. it's all late surges, big lung-busting sprints, and thwacked first-time crosses or shots. he's not great at creating his own space or beating a man with a trick (attributes of a winger).

he only works as a winger for Spurs because they play on the break. and even then his influence has gone down since they began to dominate possession and play in smaller spaces closer to their opponents goal.

in many ways he is similar to Tello. he needs lots of space to make the most of his skills - and as a winger he's not always going to get that space. as a fullback, however, that space will be there for him much more often.

as for his defending: he was 19/20 and playing infrequently for a crap Tottenham side. at 23, in a side like ours, he would be better even if he would have to improve first. look at the difference between 22 y/o Caceres and 24 y/o Caceres, for example. defenders get better as they get older - very few young players are genuinely great at defending. Bale would improve with time and training, and his potential is off the scale.
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You bring up some good points especially about him not being especially skilled at creating his own space.

That is precisely why I don't like him at Barca, a counter-attacking team is the perfect fit for him. As you pointed out he needs space, and counter-attacking teams can create that.
Barcelona are obviously the polar opposite of a counter-attacking team, we love possession football and short passes, Bale wouldn't truly be able to fulfill his potential in this sort of environment, where he tends to become stagnant. I hear you on him getting the space by playing from a deeper position, but that LB position you are talking about doesn't exist in this Barcelona team as long as Alves is still here. Even in our 4-3-3 formation, we really play 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 during game-time ( due to Alves camping in the opponent's half), with our 'LB' really playing as a LCB. This is precisely why Abidal was ideal for us, he is an excellent LCB, and had no problem defending in the central area. Even if like you say we managed to improve Bale's defense he might become decent at fulfilling a LB's defending duties, but I can never see Bale being a reliable LCB at this level of football, its just not him, its not his game.

Not to mention if we brought him here knowing his defensive liability with the mindset that we will 'groom' him into a reliable defender, it means we are purchasing an incomplete package, while paying the price of a complete one. I'm not a huge fan of doing that.
 
Metaphysical

Metaphysical

Bomb Dropper
Catalonian Devil said:
You bring up some good points especially about him not being especially skilled at creating his own space.

That is precisely why I don't like him at Barca, a counter-attacking team is the perfect fit for him. As you pointed out he needs space, and counter-attacking teams can create that.
Barcelona are obviously the polar opposite of a counter-attacking team, we love possession football and short passes, Bale wouldn't truly be able to fulfill his potential in this sort of environment, where he tends to become stagnant. I hear you on him getting the space by playing from a deeper position, but that LB position you are talking about doesn't exist in this Barcelona team as long as Alves is still here. Even in our 4-3-3 formation, we really play 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 during game-time ( due to Alves camping in the opponent's half), with our 'LB' really playing as a LCB. This is precisely why Abidal was ideal for us, he is an excellent LCB, and had no problem defending in the central area. Even if like you say we managed to improve Bale's defense he might become decent at fulfilling a LB's defending duties, but I can never see Bale being a reliable LCB at this level of football, its just not him, its not his game.

Not to mention if we brought him here knowing his defensive liability with the mindset that we will 'groom' him into a reliable defender, it means we are purchasing an incomplete package, while paying the price of a complete one. I'm not a huge fan of doing that.
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everyone said Mascherano would never make a reliable CB, but here we are.

look, I know we'd be paying for a complete package only to get a project, but for me in this instance it's worth it.

you can say it's "not his game" - but that may not stop him. Adriano has played very well at LCB a few times this season, alright these have been Camp Nou games that we were expected to dominate, but we saw him perform because at the end of the day he had pace and knew how to cover for other defenders. Bale has pace AND strength AND is a defender by trade. he will re-learn that position very quickly and if Adriano can do it in smaller games I fully believe Bale can do it in big ones. I'm not saying throw him into a back 3 for his debut, but teach him the position so we have that tactical flexibility.

as for space, again: our fullbacks have tonnes of space. even when we play a back 3 our side CB's can come marauding up the field into space because our midfielders create it so well. think of what someone like Bale could do with that space? could be beautiful. and of course even if he draws a marker, that just leaves more space elsewhere for someone else.

and the 433 with our LB becoming an LCB was 2009's thing. since then when we've gone 433 we've been working with split CB's and Busi in the middle, allowing BOTH fullbacks to move on and stretch the field, although Alves gets the ball more Abidal is always advanced.
 
Hatem Ben Arfa

Hatem Ben Arfa

New member
Gareth Bale is an absoulutely AWFUL defender.

Barca will be disappointed with him if they bought him thinking he can fulfil his attacking duties as well as be solid as an Abidal.
 
FCBarca

FCBarca

Mike the Knife
Only thing I can conclude Meta is that you are in love with his raw speed, which is better than 95% of defenders out there...You may be right and he can adapt back to defensive duties in a system that is needed here but seems like a massive gamble...There's perhaps a better than even chance it could turn into a square peg in a round hole sort of scenario as well
 
ivan22

ivan22

New member
Theconomist said:
I never understood the absurdity of linking us with Bale.
Just because Pep is gone doesn't mean we will suddenly change the way we play.
Bale could work as a left forwardish , would never work as a left back.

Start linking us to Lahm please.
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part 1 - yes, absolute sign, bale is not needed, a true defender is needed
part 2 - lol, he probably has a 2 billion buyout clause
 
Raed

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Catalonian Devil said:
Except Abidal was an actual defender...
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Who was garbage for 2 years at least.
Metaphysical said:
Bale made his name as a promising young LB.

only at Spurs, where 'Arry doesn't have any imagination or balls, did he become a LW.



1. giving him space is why you play him at LB, not LW. our LB's always have space to play in if you notice (unless we're doing some tika-taka on the sideline) and Adriano often finds room in which to surge forward and effect games. Bale would excel at this and help us break down parked defences with his driving play.

2. his low crosses certainly would. and besides that we've shown this season that we can score from crosses if the delivery is right (Cesc & Messi especially).

3. defensively he would need to improve, for sure, but then so did Abidal when we signed him. for two years he continually stood off his wingers and failed to mark them, or was caught sleeping by blindside runs. he improved and that's despite being in his late 20's/early 30's. he used to be a defender, remember, all the raw defensive tools are there.

4. price is an issue. but he'd be worth it considering his quality and his age.

5. he's not the PERFECT signing, that'd be Vertonghen. but Vertonghen wants to play for Spurs for some reason. so fuckit, let's get this guy.
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Oh, you already mentioned Abidal's defensive woes. Top man.
 
B

barcelonista

Guest
Abidal might not have performed as well at the start of his Barcelona career as in his last 2 seasons but nevertheless he was a starting defender for the French national team in 2006 which made it into the WC finals and conceded only 1 goal from open play in the whole tournament. Bale is a winger for a midtable club in England who might have played some games as a leftback in his youth (not convincingly by the way). So there is the difference. I have no doubts that we could turn him into a wingback. But we'll never make a proper defender out of a 23 year old so that he will be able to play in a 3 man backline with Alves pushing forward. At best he'll be like Marcelo defensively. At best. Being tall and strong is not enough to become a proper defender I'm afraid. Busquets at CB was a desaster whenever we played him there. Despite his extraordinary sense for positioning and reading of the game, he couldn't make up for his lack of pace. Bale most probably won't be able to make up for his lack of positional sense and discipline and reading of the game just because he has pace.

If we buy Bale, we replace Alves with a no-nonsense right back (anyone out there? Geez, the defenders nowadays are poor). Alves-Bale would be suicide.
 
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