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Thread: CL final: BAYERN (Munich) - FC INTER (Milano)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raed View Post
    What were you watching? It was two DMs for Barcelona throughout the champions league of 2006 against other big teams. You can sugar coat it as much as you like, Edmilson never cut it as a lone DM. Van Bommel or Iniesta both played deep while Deco worked his magic.
    Im pretty sure I was watching Barca, were you? I thought you were talking about the finals themselves but still.. your point makes no sense. you said that we've played a defensive 4-3-3 for our last 2 CL's. as far as I can remember we havent played any match with 2 DM's in last year's CL, we surely can agree on that, no? when fit, our midfield was always Toure-Xavi-Iniesta. if our formation was defensive in any way how come we thrashed almost every team we played against.. In 2006 I cant remember all the matches but Im pretty sure we havent played with two DM's. maybe Edmilson got some help from our CM's but that in no way means that we played with 2 DM's. against Milan in the 1st leg our midfield was Edmilson-Van Bommel-Iniesta (just like the final against Arsenal but with Iniesta instead of Deco) which wasn't 2 DM's as Ive already told you that Van Bommel took over the role of Xavi (probably giving a little more support to Edmilson). In the second leg our midfield was Edmilson-Iniesta-Deco with Iniesta taking over Xavi's role.

    we've always had one pivot/fixed DM (Edmilson and now Toure/Busi) and a CM (Xavi/Bommel/Iniesta and now Xavi, with more free role unlike in 2006) and an AM (Deco and now Iniesta)

    am I missing something? did I misunderstood you? saying that we played a defensive 4-3-3 with 2 DM's in 2006 & 2009 to win the CL is a complete joke especially when you look at the statics themselves and see the amount of chances we've had in each game

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    Raed, I agree that football is quite more entertaining when you watch a clash between two different styles, the more styles are there, the more interesting the football is. Football will be boring if all clubs play in one particular (attacking way for example). To play defensively is also an art in football. so I really respect Inter for what they did, but I don't like it, it's a matter of personal choice.
    Barcelona is not respected only for that exquisite style. Don't forget the youth academy, the philosophy, the attitude. Just look at Eto'o. When he was at Barca he was one of deadliest strikers in the World, and since he joined Inter, he has become one of most defensive forwards I've seen. Here you go a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    Im pretty sure I was watching Barca, were you? I thought you were talking about the finals themselves but still.. your point makes no sense. you said that we've played a defensive 4-3-3 for our last 2 CL's. as far as I can remember we havent played any match with 2 DM's in last year's CL, we surely can agree on that, no? when fit, our midfield was always Toure-Xavi-Iniesta. if our formation was defensive in any way how come we thrashed almost every team we played against.. In 2006 I cant remember all the matches but Im pretty sure we havent played with two DM's. maybe Edmilson got some help from our CM's but that in no way means that we played with 2 DM's. against Milan in the 1st leg our midfield was Edmilson-Van Bommel-Iniesta (just like the final against Arsenal but with Iniesta instead of Deco) which wasn't 2 DM's as Ive already told you that Van Bommel took over the role of Xavi (probably giving a little more support to Edmilson). In the second leg our midfield was Edmilson-Iniesta-Deco with Iniesta taking over Xavi's role.

    we've always had one pivot/fixed DM (Edmilson and now Toure/Busi) and a CM (Xavi/Bommel/Iniesta and now Xavi, with more free role unlike in 2006) and an AM (Deco and now Iniesta)

    am I missing something? did I misunderstood you? saying that we played a defensive 4-3-3 with 2 DM's in 2006 & 2009 to win the CL is a complete joke especially when you look at the statics themselves and see the amount of chances we've had in each game
    Bro, playing 2 DMs doesn't take anything away from what you did ever since Laporta became president. It was a tactical scheme used to break down AC Milan and beast Chelsea and it worked. It does not mean you did not play nice football, you did, and the whole world enjoyed it. The two DMs were Rijkaard's way of winning in the CL, which is a proven formula, defense wins you the CL. Your traditional 4 3 3 has one DM and two CMs. In 2006 away games, you played Iniesta and Van Bommel interchangeably deep with Edmilson right in front of the defense. There is no shame in it and I remember this vividly.

    Pep was praised of revolutionizing Catenaccio with his own version of 4 3 3. Its hard to associate Catenaccio with Barcelona but from a tactical point of view, you played with 3 CBs, one wing back and a destroyer. Results were epic and it was very smart. Not all the time, not the majority of the time, but when it mattered that is what happened, notably.

    Which means, defensive formations/alternations/variations are incredible to watch when implemented correctly. Especially when one looks at the resources.

    Statistics are decieving my friend because there have been a lot of times where shots on target are dwarfed by total shots, and sometimes shots on target are very mild, meaning none threatening.
    May permanent peace be brought to the Arab world. My heart goes out to the families of those who have lost loved one(s). I wish and hope those who are creating religious, racial, regional, and tribal divisions among/within the Arab nations would be defeated in their quest for the destruction of the Middle East.

  4. #394
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    Uhh, what? Do you even know how catenaccio system works? It's not that your post is offensive or anything, but it doesn't make sense at all. First off, just because someone plays with 3 CB's and a wingback doesn't make it a catenaccio system. Added to the fact that we don't use 3 CB's, Maxwell and Abidal have been overlapping almost as much as Alves lately. And the most important characteristic of catenaccio is tight man-to-man marking, which we don't employ.

    About the 2 DM topic, Moe is right, Van Bommel was more of a playmaker that night in 2006, while obviously being more defensive than the then-injured Xavi. And last year we definitely only used 1 DM.

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    Raed I'm afraid you're completely wrong here, a catenaccio system is basically the essence of defence, you sacrifice everything to play a lone striker, 5 defenders - though it can be 6 i.e. with a sweeper + 2 wingbacks - and it is meant to grind out 1-0 results.
    Barcelona in neither of the seasons have shown a tendency to grind out results.
    Also Real Madrid did play beautiful football, seriously that match vs. United was amazing, but now that is all gone.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Raed, I agree that football is quite more entertaining when you watch a clash between two different styles, the more styles are there, the more interesting the football is. Football will be boring if all clubs play in one particular (attacking way for example). To play defensively is also an art in football. so I really respect Inter for what they did, but I don't like it, it's a matter of personal choice.
    Barcelona is not respected only for that exquisite style. Don't forget the youth academy, the philosophy, the attitude. Just look at Eto'o. When he was at Barca he was one of deadliest strikers in the World, and since he joined Inter, he has become one of most defensive forwards I've seen. Here you go a difference.
    Perfect example to bring into question here. Eto'o. I don't particularly prefer Inter's style, but to me it is far from boring. In fact it is incredibly interesting to see how he does it, just like Capello before him.

    Eto'o played the most tactical game of his life, and Mourinho knew what made him so lethal at Barcelona. He took the same input, but with a different output. Eto'o is a hard worker, someone who runs endlessly and has an uncanny ability to track back, with an infinite amount of desire to win. Barcelona took that, bounded him by two world class wing forwards and extracted goals from him. Their tactical scheme was highly dependant on his ability to defend and pressure from the front.

    Mourinho saw that, noticed it, and given Inter's limited technical ability (as well as his) he has changed his position to better suit the formaiton. Knowing that Inter cannot create a lot of goals, and knowing that Milito is great at holding the ball as well as being able to score without behind behind a defender, he gave Eto'o the dreadful role of being a decoy. A lethal striker with incredible energy who will pressure from the top as well as sit deep if need be. While he is defending, there is always the chance that Eto'o when released will score, as against Chelsea in the away game, putting the tie to sleep. Against Barcelona, he played a 4 3 3 with Eto'o covering for Maicon. The genuis in it is that had Maicon been bombarding the right side, he would have been incredibly exposed. Except for the fact that both players complimented each other so well, so much so that Eto'o covered for Maicon who ended up scoring. The right side, being the weakest of Inter's, all of a sudden turned to be the strongest. While the left side had a charger in Pandev and a CB of an LB. Both flanks were remarkably solid.

    Against Bayern, the match boiled down to three moments. Julio Cesar saving Muller's effort, Diego Milito dicking the Bayern defense on his own only in two occasions. The beauty of it was Inter's tactical scheme was like a loaded spring. As Bayern pushed that spring closer in, the rebound was always going to be one hell of a push back. The game against Bayern saw Inter play fast, direct football with brilliant passing (something I haven't seen them do in ages) while Bayern attacked more patiently. Bayern responded to these attacks by depriving Inter off the ball (as in pushing that spring in). One moment of weakness, saw Diego Milito hold the defender back and set Sniejder up and ran free (Deigo in this case is better than Eto'o, pushing off a defender physically). Sneijder being the only other man with Milito upfront (direct orders) split the defense and a moment of sheer brilliance and confidence, Milito scores.

    Bayern responded ala Barcelona, hold possession and try to create chances. The longer you hold the ball, the higher chances of getting a goal. Except here is the trick Van Gaal did not quite top Pep in and Meta got his analysis about Inter wrong. Mourinho's defensive tactics were never about defending in masses but in isolating players. If you had noticed throughout the whole game, Olic was suffocated, Robben dicked Chivu endlessly but remained isolated, and Antiltop would beat his marker yet could not find someone to cross to.

    Same with Barcelona, Cambiasso took Xavi out of the game, Messi was looking to combine and Zlatan was drowned. Against Chelsea, Anelka was given room, but Drogba was isolated, and Lampard was quickly attacked as soon as he touched the ball. It was a brilliant combination of synchronized runs to strip the ball away from the opponent and zonal marking. I always preferred one libro CB and one charger. With Mourinho, he had instilled enough awareness in each of all 10 outfield players and the outcome was: 90 combination of defenders (if two players defended together, one runs while the other collects). It wasn't simply 10 players throwing themselves in front of the ball to block shots, no, most of the clearances were direct stripping of the ball from a player to interception of crosses.

    Inter's match against Barcelona in the Camp Nou was the only one similar to Chelsea's semi coward approach in the Stamford bridge but they were a man down, wrongfully. In the first match, Barcelona were actually outplayed off the park.

    I personally enjoy noticing small details like that, its mind boggling, and to each, his own perception but that is what I find very artistic. Not everyone can do what Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, C Ronaldo, Xavi blah blah do with the ball. Those who do are on the streets still because FIFA football isn't for them as a lot more goes into it than technical ability. Besides old time cules and die hard fans, no one remembers shit from Barcelona's 6 year drought. No one will remember them for nothing. All their beautiful football was ignored, and for a good reason. They had unbelievably technical players yet, a shit squad.

    Who remembers Recoba? Who speaks of him highly? Who speaks of Inter's amazing forward line throughout the nineties and early 2000s? I only remember it because I followed them for a long time. The CL is about recognition, and Inter are being recognized across the whole globe as worthy winners of the CL and an incredible winner of 3 major tournaments. They weren't Barcelona when they won the CL, neither was Barcelona when they won it in 2006 and 2009.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10Rivaldo View Post
    Uhh, what? Do you even know how catenaccio system works? It's not that your post is offensive or anything, but it doesn't make sense at all. First off, just because someone plays with 3 CB's and a wingback doesn't make it a catenaccio system. Added to the fact that we don't use 3 CB's, Maxwell and Abidal have been overlapping almost as much as Alves lately. And the most important characteristic of catenaccio is tight man-to-man marking, which we don't employ.

    About the 2 DM topic, Moe is right, Van Bommel was more of a playmaker that night in 2006, while obviously being more defensive than the then-injured Xavi. And last year we definitely only used 1 DM.


    Quote Originally Posted by beef-supreme View Post
    Raed I'm afraid you're completely wrong here, a catenaccio system is basically the essence of defence, you sacrifice everything to play a lone striker, 5 defenders - though it can be 6 i.e. with a sweeper + 2 wingbacks - and it is meant to grind out 1-0 results.
    Barcelona in neither of the seasons have shown a tendency to grind out results.
    Also Real Madrid did play beautiful football, seriously that match vs. United was amazing, but now that is all gone.
    Last time I saw a truly remarkable game by Madrid in Europe was pretty far back and it is not pleasing. We have been always found out tactically or physically, its pretty depressing. Barcelona did not use Catenaccio, its dead in the water. Its a 60s regime that no longer exist. I am trying to find articles from last year that also said Pep did use Catenaccio within his 4 3 3. I will find it, but I am studying for two midterms. I will explain it later, I promise.
    May permanent peace be brought to the Arab world. My heart goes out to the families of those who have lost loved one(s). I wish and hope those who are creating religious, racial, regional, and tribal divisions among/within the Arab nations would be defeated in their quest for the destruction of the Middle East.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raed View Post
    Perfect example to bring into question here. Eto'o. I don't particularly prefer Inter's style, but to me it is far from boring. In fact it is incredibly interesting to see how he does it, just like Capello before him.

    Eto'o played the most tactical game of his life, and Mourinho knew what made him so lethal at Barcelona. He took the same input, but with a different output. Eto'o is a hard worker, someone who runs endlessly and has an uncanny ability to track back, with an infinite amount of desire to win. Barcelona took that, bounded him by two world class wing forwards and extracted goals from him. Their tactical scheme was highly dependant on his ability to defend and pressure from the front.

    Mourinho saw that, noticed it, and given Inter's limited technical ability (as well as his) he has changed his position to better suit the formaiton. Knowing that Inter cannot create a lot of goals, and knowing that Milito is great at holding the ball as well as being able to score without behind behind a defender, he gave Eto'o the dreadful role of being a decoy. A lethal striker with incredible energy who will pressure from the top as well as sit deep if need be. While he is defending, there is always the chance that Eto'o when released will score, as against Chelsea in the away game, putting the tie to sleep. Against Barcelona, he played a 4 3 3 with Eto'o covering for Maicon. The genuis in it is that had Maicon been bombarding the right side, he would have been incredibly exposed. Except for the fact that both players complimented each other so well, so much so that Eto'o covered for Maicon who ended up scoring. The right side, being the weakest of Inter's, all of a sudden turned to be the strongest. While the left side had a charger in Pandev and a CB of an LB. Both flanks were remarkably solid.

    Against Bayern, the match boiled down to three moments. Julio Cesar saving Muller's effort, Diego Milito dicking the Bayern defense on his own only in two occasions. The beauty of it was Inter's tactical scheme was like a loaded spring. As Bayern pushed that spring closer in, the rebound was always going to be one hell of a push back. The game against Bayern saw Inter play fast, direct football with brilliant passing (something I haven't seen them do in ages) while Bayern attacked more patiently. Bayern responded to these attacks by depriving Inter off the ball (as in pushing that spring in). One moment of weakness, saw Diego Milito hold the defender back and set Sniejder up and ran free (Deigo in this case is better than Eto'o, pushing off a defender physically). Sneijder being the only other man with Milito upfront (direct orders) split the defense and a moment of sheer brilliance and confidence, Milito scores.

    Bayern responded ala Barcelona, hold possession and try to create chances. The longer you hold the ball, the higher chances of getting a goal. Except here is the trick Van Gaal did not quite top Pep in and Meta got his analysis about Inter wrong. Mourinho's defensive tactics were never about defending in masses but in isolating players. If you had noticed throughout the whole game, Olic was suffocated, Robben dicked Chivu endlessly but remained isolated, and Antiltop would beat his marker yet could not find someone to cross to.

    Same with Barcelona, Cambiasso took Xavi out of the game, Messi was looking to combine and Zlatan was drowned. Against Chelsea, Anelka was given room, but Drogba was isolated, and Lampard was quickly attacked as soon as he touched the ball. It was a brilliant combination of synchronized runs to strip the ball away from the opponent and zonal marking. I always preferred one libro CB and one charger. With Mourinho, he had instilled enough awareness in each of all 10 outfield players and the outcome was: 90 combination of defenders (if two players defended together, one runs while the other collects). It wasn't simply 10 players throwing themselves in front of the ball to block shots, no, most of the clearances were direct stripping of the ball from a player to interception of crosses.

    Inter's match against Barcelona in the Camp Nou was the only one similar to Chelsea's semi coward approach in the Stamford bridge but they were a man down, wrongfully. In the first match, Barcelona were actually outplayed off the park.

    I personally enjoy noticing small details like that, its mind boggling, and to each, his own perception but that is what I find very artistic. Not everyone can do what Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, C Ronaldo, Xavi blah blah do with the ball. Those who do are on the streets still because FIFA football isn't for them as a lot more goes into it than technical ability. Besides old time cules and die hard fans, no one remembers shit from Barcelona's 6 year drought. No one will remember them for nothing. All their beautiful football was ignored, and for a good reason. They had unbelievably technical players yet, a shit squad.

    Who remembers Recoba? Who speaks of him highly? Who speaks of Inter's amazing forward line throughout the nineties and early 2000s? I only remember it because I followed them for a long time. The CL is about recognition, and Inter are being recognized across the whole globe as worthy winners of the CL and an incredible winner of 3 major tournaments. They weren't Barcelona when they won the CL, neither was Barcelona when they won it in 2006 and 2009.
    Brilliant post Raed.




    Brilliant.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raed View Post
    Perfect example to bring into question here. Eto'o. I don't particularly prefer Inter's style, but to me it is far from boring. In fact it is incredibly interesting to see how he does it, just like Capello before him.

    Eto'o played the most tactical game of his life, and Mourinho knew what made him so lethal at Barcelona. He took the same input, but with a different output. Eto'o is a hard worker, someone who runs endlessly and has an uncanny ability to track back, with an infinite amount of desire to win. Barcelona took that, bounded him by two world class wing forwards and extracted goals from him. Their tactical scheme was highly dependant on his ability to defend and pressure from the front.

    Mourinho saw that, noticed it, and given Inter's limited technical ability (as well as his) he has changed his position to better suit the formaiton. Knowing that Inter cannot create a lot of goals, and knowing that Milito is great at holding the ball as well as being able to score without behind behind a defender, he gave Eto'o the dreadful role of being a decoy. A lethal striker with incredible energy who will pressure from the top as well as sit deep if need be. While he is defending, there is always the chance that Eto'o when released will score, as against Chelsea in the away game, putting the tie to sleep. Against Barcelona, he played a 4 3 3 with Eto'o covering for Maicon. The genuis in it is that had Maicon been bombarding the right side, he would have been incredibly exposed. Except for the fact that both players complimented each other so well, so much so that Eto'o covered for Maicon who ended up scoring. The right side, being the weakest of Inter's, all of a sudden turned to be the strongest. While the left side had a charger in Pandev and a CB of an LB. Both flanks were remarkably solid.

    Against Bayern, the match boiled down to three moments. Julio Cesar saving Muller's effort, Diego Milito dicking the Bayern defense on his own only in two occasions. The beauty of it was Inter's tactical scheme was like a loaded spring. As Bayern pushed that spring closer in, the rebound was always going to be one hell of a push back. The game against Bayern saw Inter play fast, direct football with brilliant passing (something I haven't seen them do in ages) while Bayern attacked more patiently. Bayern responded to these attacks by depriving Inter off the ball (as in pushing that spring in). One moment of weakness, saw Diego Milito hold the defender back and set Sniejder up and ran free (Deigo in this case is better than Eto'o, pushing off a defender physically). Sneijder being the only other man with Milito upfront (direct orders) split the defense and a moment of sheer brilliance and confidence, Milito scores.

    Bayern responded ala Barcelona, hold possession and try to create chances. The longer you hold the ball, the higher chances of getting a goal. Except here is the trick Van Gaal did not quite top Pep in and Meta got his analysis about Inter wrong. Mourinho's defensive tactics were never about defending in masses but in isolating players. If you had noticed throughout the whole game, Olic was suffocated, Robben dicked Chivu endlessly but remained isolated, and Antiltop would beat his marker yet could not find someone to cross to.

    Same with Barcelona, Cambiasso took Xavi out of the game, Messi was looking to combine and Zlatan was drowned. Against Chelsea, Anelka was given room, but Drogba was isolated, and Lampard was quickly attacked as soon as he touched the ball. It was a brilliant combination of synchronized runs to strip the ball away from the opponent and zonal marking. I always preferred one libro CB and one charger. With Mourinho, he had instilled enough awareness in each of all 10 outfield players and the outcome was: 90 combination of defenders (if two players defended together, one runs while the other collects). It wasn't simply 10 players throwing themselves in front of the ball to block shots, no, most of the clearances were direct stripping of the ball from a player to interception of crosses.

    Inter's match against Barcelona in the Camp Nou was the only one similar to Chelsea's semi coward approach in the Stamford bridge but they were a man down, wrongfully. In the first match, Barcelona were actually outplayed off the park.

    I personally enjoy noticing small details like that, its mind boggling, and to each, his own perception but that is what I find very artistic. Not everyone can do what Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, C Ronaldo, Xavi blah blah do with the ball. Those who do are on the streets still because FIFA football isn't for them as a lot more goes into it than technical ability. Besides old time cules and die hard fans, no one remembers shit from Barcelona's 6 year drought. No one will remember them for nothing. All their beautiful football was ignored, and for a good reason. They had unbelievably technical players yet, a shit squad.

    Who remembers Recoba? Who speaks of him highly? Who speaks of Inter's amazing forward line throughout the nineties and early 2000s? I only remember it because I followed them for a long time. The CL is about recognition, and Inter are being recognized across the whole globe as worthy winners of the CL and an incredible winner of 3 major tournaments. They weren't Barcelona when they won the CL, neither was Barcelona when they won it in 2006 and 2009.







    Last time I saw a truly remarkable game by Madrid in Europe was pretty far back and it is not pleasing. We have been always found out tactically or physically, its pretty depressing. Barcelona did not use Catenaccio, its dead in the water. Its a 60s regime that no longer exist. I am trying to find articles from last year that also said Pep did use Catenaccio within his 4 3 3. I will find it, but I am studying for two midterms. I will explain it later, I promise
    .
    Excellent post Raed
    regarding the last paragraph , Pep copied the 3 CB one attacking full back from Serie A .. Abidal in last year treble winning season played more as a third CB than a full back while Alves attacked relentlessly , it's not catenaccio but it's copied from serie A
    Say NO to "Gif" signature

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    Dr. Raed St. Claire
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    May permanent peace be brought to the Arab world. My heart goes out to the families of those who have lost loved one(s). I wish and hope those who are creating religious, racial, regional, and tribal divisions among/within the Arab nations would be defeated in their quest for the destruction of the Middle East.