Pep Guardiola

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
the definition is very loosely, but noone at Bayern would ever come up with the idea that Robben, Alaba or Ribery should be viewed as "outsiders" or whatever you want to call it, just because they were randomly born elsewhere. Ribery is more of a fan-favourite than Götze or Rode is, not just because he is good, but because he kinda loves the club and the fans have recognized that.
Hitzfeld said something about it, but the majority did disagree with him and i also think that his statements were pretty stupid, regardless of what a great coach he was.

Yeah, I agree that Ribery, Robben and Alaba are fan favorites (especially Alaba, I have never met a fan who doesn't like him and rate him highly), but I do think there is an ongoing debate or issue on this, so much so that Guardiola was asked about it today to which he had to respond.

To your point, it is probably mostly tied to Guardiola's tenure at Bayern and the fact that quite a few Spanish and Spanish-speaking players have joined Bayern since he got here.

But again, I have not seen other clubs in other clubs having this sort of domestic vs. foreign debate.
 
Yannik, I am not sure if that cuts it. From what I have read, there is no such thing as "Bayern identity" tied to players spending a long time at Bayern or Bayern youth products per say, Bayern fans loved Ballack and Kroos and hated them only because they left.

"Bayern identify" can be loosely equated to "German identity" as Bayern always seeks to sign the best German prospects and vice versa (the best German prospects usually prefer playing for Bayern). The ongoing debate/controversy highlighted by Hitzfeld's recent criticism of Bayern not retaining enough German players does have more of a nationalistic undertone, I felt.

The bold part - no. Ballack was a good player - but no fan favourite. Liza, Sagnol, Salihamidzic etc. had the love of the stands. Elber, too. It is not bound to nationalities.

Kroos - no, never. Do not mix some forums and bandwagoners with the fans in the stands. Kroos was a ball watcher, somebody that let the others run when he lost the ball and had a lot of arrogant interviews when he was young. Thiago already after some matches in which he showed real passion is a bigger fan favourite than Kroos ever was.

The players themselves have no problems with it the language or the different nationalities. That you have to learn the language when you live in the country is just normal. Some learn easier - with some it takes longer.

Your last sentence - not really - and not lately. It was not like this in the 80s when a lot Bavarians played for Bayern - and it is not recently with a lot of homegrown players. There were times when there haven't been enough good German or especially Bavarian players.

Did anyone see the article of language that german must be prime language in locker room? do u imagine african or brazilian in Munchen? well that says all.

What is wrong with that? Doesn't the Barca locker room speak spanish? If you come to a new country you have to adapt - and the language is a big part of this. At the beginning you will get help. The "old" Brazilians at Bayern speak a good German - actually Rafinha has claimed German citizenship and Dante wants to make that, too, as he wants to stay in Germany after his career and like this it is easier.
 
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
The bold part - no. Ballack was a good player - but no fan favourite. Liza, Sagnol, Salihamidzic etc. had the love of the stands. Elber, too. It is not bound to nationalities.

Kroos - no, never. Do not mix some forums and bandwagoners with the fans in the stands. Kroos was a ball watcher, somebody that let the others run when he lost the ball and had a lot of arrogant interviews when he was young. Thiago already after some matches in which he showed real passion is a bigger fan favourite than Kroos ever was.

The players themselves have no problems with it the language or the different nationalities. That you have to learn the language when you live in the country is just normal. Some learn easier - with some it takes longer.

Your last sentence - not really - and not lately. It was not like this in the 80s when a lot Bavarians played for Bayern - and it is not recently with a lot of homegrown players.

No, I am not saying all Bayern fans naturally prefer German players to foreign players, especially when it comes to specific individual players we are talking about. I am saying the fact that this has become a debate, a controversy, a topic lately says something. Are you saying such debate/topic doesn't really exist, it was merely fabricated by the media?
 
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No, I am not saying all Bayern fans naturally prefer German players to foreign players, especially when it comes to specific individual players we are talking about. I am saying the fact that this has become a debate, a controversy, a topic lately says something. Are you saying such debate/topic doesn't really exist, it was merely fabricated by the media?

Oh, the topic for sure does exist. It is not a new topic either - or something that did not exist prior to Pep. But I think that similar topics exist in about every club and fanbase. But I doubt that a lot people miss the Ottls and Lells of old times. And nobody really wanted a German instead of Thiago or Vidal... It is more a general discussion than a discussion about single players. Actually I do not really see a German player in the league that really would improve Bayern and do not see anybody that would make the starting formation. A lot players seem to be limited with their strength to more counter attacking systems, too.

The topic just cooked high again with Schweinsteiger leaving and United's offer for Müller. The first was the face for Bayern for years - but Müller already had overtaken it some time ago.

Bayern does not have more or less Germans than they had the seasons before.

The situation in between the player is more like this:
tumblr_nsbvlkAU9D1r3ylkmo3_250.gif

You see how all stand together and chat with each other when Pepe Reina paid a visit. And I do not know in which language Pepe, Thiago and Müller talked with each other - but it seems to work...

That players have to learn the language of the country and that the club language is the language of the country, too, is nothing to discuss about. It simply helps you to adapt into a country and to get to know and understand people and culture. I do not think that Barca has a different philosophy than Bayern here. I do not think that Rakitic or Ter Steegen do or did not learn the language. The spanish lads - especially Pepe Reina, Alonso and Thiago speak a very sophisticated German even if they still do not like to give interviews in German - but they have a teacher that usually teaches in Grammar school and seems to teach them German from the basics - especially the Grammar. But it is not their first new language - there is others that for sure have more problems.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Oh, the topic for sure does exist. It is not a new topic either - or something that did not exist prior to Pep. But I think that similar topics exist in about every club and fanbase. But I doubt that a lot people miss the Ottls and Lells of old times. And nobody really wanted a German instead of Thiago or Vidal... It is more a general discussion than a discussion about single players. Actually I do not really see a German player in the league that really would improve Bayern and do not see anybody that would make the starting formation. A lot players seem to be limited with their strength to more counter attacking systems, too.

The topic just cooked high again with Schweinsteiger leaving and United's offer for Müller. The first was the face for Bayern for years - but Müller already had overtaken it some time ago.

Bayern does not have more or less Germans than they had the seasons before.

The situation in between the player is more like this:
tumblr_nsbvlkAU9D1r3ylkmo3_250.gif

You see how all stand together and chat with each other when Pepe Reina paid a visit. And I do not know in which language Pepe, Thiago and Müller talked with each other - but it seems to work...

That players have to learn the language of the country and that the club language is the language of the country, too, is nothing to discuss about. It simply helps you to adapt into a country and to get to know and understand people and culture. I do not think that Barca has a different philosophy than Bayern here. I do not think that Rakitic or Ter Steegen do or did not learn the language. The spanish lads - especially Pepe Reina, Alonso and Thiago speak a very sophisticated German even if they still do not like to give interviews in German - but they have a teacher that usually teaches in Grammar school and seems to teach them German from the basics - especially the Grammar. But it is not their first new language - there is others that for sure have more problems.

No argument on the language part at all, you simply have to learn the language of the host club/country, it is as simple as that, at least that is how it works in Europe. But that is not the point of the discussion here, which is once again, the so-called "German identity" of Bayern debate that surfaced again amid the departure of Schweinsteiger and highlighted by Hitzfeld's comments. I am not aware of this kind of debate or discussion in other clubs, for example, you don't see us or Real Madrid etc. talking about retaining the Catalan or Spanish core etc.
 

Beast

The Observer
Too interested in developing new idea's than performing... i'd go as far as saying his best was back in Barca
2 years now with Bayern and not once was i impressed .. it's easy for Bayern to overcome the other teams considering the big huge gap of financial power and especially that they were more interested in snapping their rivals best players however i look at the CL and i see Pep too exposed of his short coming as a manager.. he needs only certain type of players to do his thing which makes him obsolete to all but Barcelona ..

Especially against Barca & Real .. two teams he knows they quite well and the two times it was an epic fail

he should focus more on the team not the game as in tactics & idea's... he lost a lot of reputation during his time in BM despite the back to back league wins no one is taking it highly
 

Aryagorn

Improvin' Perfection!!
Too interested in developing new idea's than performing... i'd go as far as saying his best was back in Barca
2 years now with Bayern and not once was i impressed .. it's easy for Bayern to overcome the other teams considering the big huge gap of financial power and especially that they were more interested in snapping their rivals best players however i look at the CL and i see Pep too exposed of his short coming as a manager.. he needs only certain type of players to do his thing which makes him obsolete to all but Barcelona ..

Especially against Barca & Real .. two teams he knows they quite well and the two times it was an epic fail

he should focus more on the team not the game as in tactics & idea's... he lost a lot of reputation during his time in BM despite the back to back league wins no one is taking it highly
Pep definitely has his flaws and he definitely didn't turn out to be as great as people thought he would... But he wasn't really over-exposed against Barca, it was Messi's magic that won the tie and even then it went kinda close in the end. Of course, people might argue that the team had taken a foot off the pedal, but Bayern still wasn't really a failure against Barca last season. I give you Real, they just destroyed them
 

Beast

The Observer
Come on man... with 3-0 in the first leg & 2-1 in the first half = 5-1 with 45 minutes to go.. of course he was destroyed & you took your foot off the pedal ..there is no "some might argue " in it....Bayern needed to score 5 goals in 45 minutes to qualify
 

Galning

Moderator
Bayern were playing without Alaba, Robben, Ribéry,... am probably forgetting some.

That said, if you're managing Bayern you have to win everything in Germany and then reach final of CL otherwise people will always say you failed.
 

Alik

Moderator
Bayern were playing without Alaba, Robben, Ribéry,... am probably forgetting some.

That said, if you're managing Bayern you have to win everything in Germany and then reach final of CL otherwise people will always say you failed.

Robben and Alaba were playing.
 

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