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Thread: Pep Guardiola

  1. #9076
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    Which one of your contradictions do are you asking to be cited?

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    You want to make a claim of contradiction, in any scenario, back it up with something factual rather than innuendo. I realize you suffer from a lack of comprehension and need to re-read things over & over before remotely getting the point but, cite it or it didn't happen
    Paolo Maldini - "In my opinion, Messi should win the Ballon D'Or each year. He's an unbelievable player."

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    Pep disposed of Eto'o because he couldn't control him to the degree that he wants to control his players. The purpose of a manager is to make the team work and the players play for the team, in order to win. Everything that was demanded from Eto'o, from a sporting perspective, he delivered. Helped the team and gave it all for the team, winning clasicos, scoring decisive goals when the team needed it.

    It was not a wise managerial decision to let go of one of your best performers, and probably the best no9 in the world at the time. It was a personal decision. Pep didn't like Eto'o, like your boss at work doesn't like you even if you do what it's required from you. I hate men that impose their will on others not by reason, but by force because their status is higher. Pep does that a lot. He makes calls because he wants to, and because he can, not necessarily because they're the right thing to do. Just like a dictator, he uses his full force everytime there's a problem. He's not looking to fix the problem, but to get rid of the problem. It's easier that way, and less time consuming.

    What he doesn't like and what he can't control, he expels. Except he made a huge mistake, by bringing in probably the only player who was twice as hard to control than Eto'o. He didn't like Eto'o, he cut him off in a year. He didn't like Ibra, same treatment, cut him off in a year. Didn't like Hart, cut him off. Didn't like the german doctor, cut him off. Maybe, just maybe, there's not something wrong with everyone in each of these cases. Maybe Pep is just a person which pushes the power button everytime he doesn't like a thing about someone. Like a great boss, and a great manager but an asshole if you're not on his side.

    For example, what Pep did to Hart is similar to a new coach coming at Barcelona and firing whoever he doesn't like. Let's say a manager wants to play a defensive midfield behind MSN and says he doesn't need Iniesta because he's not physically strong enough. So he transfers Kante let's say, and sells Iniesta (and at 27, not 32) or even worse, loans him, like some sort of inconvenience, somebody that's in his way. Imagine such a disgrace for a club legend. You just don't do that. You don't just walk in a room and in a couple of months tell whatever players you don't fancy to pack their baggs, while saying to the press how great they are. That's not being polite, that's being perverse. At least have the decency to say what the problem is.

    That's not hating on Guardiola, that's insisting on his faults to see that they exist if you look closer.
    Last edited by serghei; 2nd September 2016 at 03:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FCBarca View Post
    You want to make a claim of contradiction, in any scenario, back it up with something factual rather than innuendo. I realize you suffer from a lack of comprehension and need to re-read things over & over before remotely getting the point but, cite it or it didn't happen
    Just cited the Pep all La Masia eleven claim and you wanting Munir on loan as doesnt have skill set to back up MSN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryagorn View Post
    Eto'o indeed was a big ego... No denying the fact. But the way he took the criticism (from Pep, you know he announced he wanted the guy out even before he started his tenure) positively, and lived onto be the integral part of the historic treble, he had been a thorough professional. But what did Pep do? Threw him out the backdoor! It is not exactly living to the logo of Més que un club to still badmouth Eto'o who has been a thorough professional despite the stupid treatment we meted out to him!

    It is logical to support Pep because he has indeed been a legend of the club. But to support him him no matter what he does and ridiculing others and calling them newbies!? I guess we can't really expect better from the blindfold followers of the "big-man" that Pep ends up being when he had to deal with players with characters that are not to his liking!
    +1

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    I don't undertand the notion that Barca fans can't criticize Guardiola or dislike certain elements/traits of how Guardiola conducts himself vis-à-vis other people.

    True Cules must love him 100% otherwise you are not one? I don't get it.
    Sóc Culer.

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    Paolo Maldini - "In my opinion, Messi should win the Ballon D'Or each year. He's an unbelievable player."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FCBarca View Post
    Thats that sorted then.

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    Don't most managers think about the present and results though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazp View Post
    Don't most managers think about the present and results though?
    Yip they do and Pep did also if there was not young players from B team he trusted.

    Hence only really two of them being brought through from B team by Pep to be undisputed starters and Pep spending close to 100m in a summer rather than turning to La Masia at times.

    People are blurring the lines as if Pep brought through countless B team players to undisputed starters. When he didnt and was happy to spend if didnt trust young players coming through.

    What Pep did was change the whole focus and based the team on La Masia players and that lasts until today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Pep disposed of Eto'o because he couldn't control him to the degree that he wants to control his players. The purpose of a manager is to make the team work and the players play for the team, in order to win. Everything that was demanded from Eto'o, from a sporting perspective, he delivered. Helped the team and gave it all for the team, winning clasicos, scoring decisive goals when the team needed it.

    It was not a wise managerial decision to let go of one of your best performers, and probably the best no9 in the world at the time. It was a personal decision. Pep didn't like Eto'o, like your boss at work doesn't like you even if you do what it's required from you. I hate men that impose their will on others not by reason, but by force because their status is higher. Pep does that a lot. He makes calls because he wants to, and because he can, not necessarily because they're the right thing to do. Just like a dictator, he uses his full force everytime there's a problem. He's not looking to fix the problem, but to get rid of the problem. It's easier that way, and less time consuming.

    What he doesn't like and what he can't control, he expels. Except he made a huge mistake, by bringing in probably the only player who was twice as hard to control than Eto'o. He didn't like Eto'o, he cut him off in a year. He didn't like Ibra, same treatment, cut him off in a year. Didn't like Hart, cut him off. Didn't like the german doctor, cut him off. Maybe, just maybe, there's not something wrong with everyone in each of these cases. Maybe Pep is just a person which pushes the power button everytime he doesn't like a thing about someone. Like a great boss, and a great manager but an asshole if you're not on his side.

    For example, what Pep did to Hart is similar to a new coach coming at Barcelona and firing whoever he doesn't like. Let's say a manager wants to play a defensive midfield behind MSN and says he doesn't need Iniesta because he's not physically strong enough. So he transfers Kante let's say, and sells Iniesta (and at 27, not 32) or even worse, loans him, like some sort of inconvenience, somebody that's in his way. Imagine such a disgrace for a club legend. You just don't do that. You don't just walk in a room and in a couple of months tell whatever players you don't fancy to pack their baggs, while saying to the press how great they are. That's not being polite, that's being perverse. At least have the decency to say what the problem is.

    That's not hating on Guardiola, that's insisting on his faults to see that they exist if you look closer.


    What a load of tripe, did you make that all up by yourself?

  12. #9087
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    People are blurring the lines as if Pep brought through countless B team players to undisputed starters. When he didnt and was happy to spend if didnt trust young players coming through.
    Agreed.

    Pep didn't trust young and unready players more than Lucho. That's a myth. He made Barca more Masia oriented because he spoted the insane talent we had at that time, a once in a lifetime generation. He had 3 players he fully trusted and 2 players that he used quite a bit. Pique, Busquets, Pedro were the ones he really formed and two of them are part of the backbone of Barcelona to this day. He also trusted Thiago (still not enough to not bring Cesc though), and to some extent Tello. To stretch the list beyond that it's too much. Sergi Roberto, Bartra, weren't actually developed by Pep.

    Lucho has Roberto that he fully trusts (I think to the extent Pep trusted Pedro), and then has Rafinha who he played on regular basis, and also Munir who has had chances, and even Sandro at times. Bartra not that much, was clearly 4th CB for him. I could bet anything that with the current talent from La Masia, Pep wouldn't have done much better than Lucho regarding youth, if at all. Pep was fanatic about winning, no way in hell he would've played young players if he didn't think they were ready. Imposing his style and winning are everything to him.

    It's amazing Lucho gets flack for supposedly not trusting young players and going for results only, when, in fact, all 3 young players he trusted the most (Roberto, Munir and Rafinha) were more or less pretty criticized around here for not being good enough. It's beyond crazy. Munir was "useless" and people wanted Roberto loaned. Now everyone is blaming Lucho for signing Paco Alcacer and loaning Munir. What happened with 70% of the forum who said Sandro should be kept at the first team because he is better than Munir? The vast majority of the forum didn't think Munir deserved to be on the first team, yet Lucho took him at the first team, played him quite a lot in his 2 seasons, and now he is still being made to look like the bad guy, the guy who doesn't care about youth.

    He sure as hell cares more than the vast majority around here, who thought Munir and Roberto were failures, and didn't even imagine one would be missed and the other would become Alves' succesor at RB. Now it seems like Lucho was right and we were wrong (I didn't rate Roberto highly either, guilty of that, not with Munir though, always thought he is superior to Sandro), but somehow he comes across as the bad guy no matter what he does.
    Last edited by serghei; 2nd September 2016 at 11:36 PM.

  13. #9088
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    I think this debate won't end if it's only going to be talked about La Masia players, about how much time they're given under Lucho or were given under Pep or how many of those shined bla bla bla.
    I think there are some parts missed here, let's back to Pep's era , Pep's managerial method is quite different to Lucho's ofc. Pep implements a system where all players can quite shine even if they're mediocre and surely it happens when the system works successfully.

    Pedro for example, Pep could go and find out the best or one of the best wingers at the time for the replacement of Henry ( He couldn't produce his skills constantly due to his age obviously ) or develop one of these La Masia players and let him grow.
    Is Pedro mediocre ? As my opinion Yes he is. As we can see he can't perform in Chelsea as good as he did for Barca and he failed ( Yes there could be several reasons but this could one of them )
    Ok let's ask the question again but in other way, does that mean he's not good player at all ? No he might be good at some systems and under some coaches.
    So there are some players who can perform well under specific systems but not in all ones ( So here we can't just say Pep had 'talented' players and that's it. The way Pep gets these players worked out well is the important key )

    That all being said, Im going to point out, Pep has a method ( system ) that would let players those who are not 'world class' or 'star' at all, shine through the system. So certainly there would be more high chances to grab mediocre or less valued players ( In terms of spending money to buy a player ) to let them be world class.
    And it's not about even La Masia players or something like this , I mean ofc Pep would take these Masia players if there's one who can give him the result he wants, who the bloody doesn't , why would you waste your time to find out a player that would fit your system when you have got it already beside yours. And if there's no one , he goes to find other ones ( Keita , Abidal , Masche, the bloody useful players he bought for the team ) , Or like Costa , Coman , Kimmich in his Bayern era and so on. ( I bet he would've brought players from Bayern's academic if there was any )

    And that's exactly the point here, Lucho can't do this much because he can't simple as that. he doesn't have a special system that would let more players to shine therefore, he's got less chance to reveal Masia players in a surprising way. he relies more on individual skills of a player, he likes players who proved themselves already, he doesn't risk as much as some people expect.

    To be honest , it's funny to me how some people try to say Lucho is good at this case while he isn't or debating about how 'saint' Pep is, This is what Pep does, He develops players and let them perform at the maximum level. Why on earth should someone not trying to do when you're good at it ? And ofc to some people is more way valuable if they see their coach is trying to play the academic or home-grown players and bring them success.

    But at the end of the day Lucho brought us trophies same as Pep,But the way how they brought, the way how the team performed during the period is important to some people ( let's be honest here back in the day we were all proud of how Barca performed during 2008-12 and established his legacy in the football history )

    p.s : being 'failure' on Pedro I mean he doesn't perform the same as he's been doing.
    Last edited by ini4ever; 3rd September 2016 at 04:02 PM.

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    I don't even know why people are arguing about Pep. He signed Bravo, so what ? One of our GKs was on the move, Guardiola or not. I posted about it a year ago and am no genius.

    Some posts are downright laughable. All it takes is one dude saying pep is a saint/ a devil for a bunch to flip their shit. Don't know why, but Guardiola is the ultimate bait here.

    Btw, Pep is a saint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TornAndFrayed View Post

    Btw, Pep is a saint.

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