Toni Kroos

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
I don't think it is really unfair to criticize Courtois for his conceded goals between the legs. He does concede a ridiculous number of those compared to any other decent goalkeeper partly because of his height but also because of his 1 v 1 shot stopping technique. The one that he uses is not compatible with his 199 centimeters in 1v1 situations. A goalkeeper like MAtS makes it almost impossible to score between his legs because he actually closes that space like a hockey goalkeeper does when rushing out. Courtois (almost) always leaves it open and as a result it is stupidly easy to score that way.
 
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Alik

Moderator
I agree with Wolfe. Criticism on Courtois is completely blown out of proportion. Hell, he almost saved that shot last night.

Their squad is quality, like ours, but it is filled with players that are not motivated, so they don't quite work as hard as in the past. Same problems like us, except we have Messi, and they don't have Ronaldo.

It really boils down to Zidane's quality as a manager. It's time to prove he belongs in the conversation with the likes of Guardiola, Klopp, Simeone.

He should never be included in that conversation.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
The thing is that what he did in CL with Madrid puts him there. Now he has to prove it was not a lucky streak and stay there.

We could entertain him on par with Pep and Klopp if all 3 of his CL wins were as dominant as 2017.

But 2018 was the flukiest of all flukes. Literal gifts in the semis and final. And 2016, there was the most sterile City side in the semis.

:lol:

I suspect Zidane's CL motivation magic worked because his best player (CR7) was also his most driven, hungry player in that competition (especially since 2016 when he started resting in league for long stretches March-May). And that set the tone for the others.
 
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El Gato

Villarato!
Their squad is quality, like ours, but it is filled with players that are not motivated, so they don't quite work as hard as in the past. Same problems like us, except we have Messi, and they don't have Ronaldo.

We didnt lose points last night due to lack of motivation. Not at all. We drew because of a) lack of creating good chances (Hazard/Vinicius) and finishing in the first half - for which we bought Jović, but for a variety of reasons it’s not an immediate solution to that problem, and b) bad habits leading to lack of focus and control in the 2nd half. The 2nd is a managerial failure on part of the board and the coach. Carvajal has actually declined to being an average fullback at best since his heart condition and we are still treating him like he’s an undisputed world class quality.

There’s denial about many players shortcomings that are left unmanaged. Kroos was always prone to these brain farts to the point that actually we are now close to saying ‘well, that’s kinda normal, he will be a boss next game’. There is lack of improvement about this side who are now peaking or have peaked. I was hoping Zizou coming back and slotting into the mode of mean dad will be the reality check, but looks as if he’s not found the right way to ensure they stay focused for 90 mins. The presser is encouraging because it’s straight to the point and puts it all on Kroos, whose job now is to react. We will see what happens vs Villarreal. My guess is we will come with a different formation. There need to be punishments for mistakes. No doubt.

But to imply they can’t be arsed is not correct. They were.
 
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El Gato

Villarato!
I don't think it is really unfair to criticize Courtois for his conceded goals between the legs. He does concede a ridiculous number of those compared to any other decent goalkeeper partly because of his height but also because of his 1 v 1 shot stopping technique. The one that he uses is not compatible with his 199 centimeters in 1v1 situations. A goalkeeper like MAtS makes it almost impossible to score between his legs because he actually closes that space like a hockey goalkeeper does when rushing out. Courtois (almost) always leaves it open and as a result it is stupidly easy to score that way.

This is like criticising Messi for not being a more effective striker in the air. It’s how it sounds. Which is why I think it’s silly, especially in situations where him being put in a 1v1 is usually due to shocking blunders of others. But whatever. I’m sure he knows and he’s aware like he said even after that Chelsea game. He almost saved it and he’s still being pinned up for it as if it actually detracts from his performance, which up to that point was solid. It is not his fault we lost 2 points last night. At all.
 

serghei

Senior Member
We didnt lose points last night due to lack of motivation. Not at all. We drew because of a) lack of creating good chances (Hazard/Vinicius) and finishing in the first half - for which we bought Jović, but for a variety of reasons it’s not an immediate solution to that problem, and b) bad habits leading to lack of focus and control in the 2nd half. The 2nd is a managerial failure on part of the board and the coach. Carvajal has actually declined to being an average fullback at best since his heart condition and we are still treating him like he’s an undisputed world class quality.

There’s denial about many players shortcomings that are left unmanaged. Kroos was always prone to these brain farts to the point that actually we are now close to saying ‘well, that’s kinda normal, he will be a boss next game’. There is lack of improvement about this side who are now peaking or have peaked. I was hoping Zizou coming back and slotting into the mode of mean dad will be the reality check, but looks as if he’s not found the right way to ensure they stay focused for 90 mins. The presser is encouraging because it’s straight to the point and puts it all on Kroos, whose job now is to react. We will see what happens vs Villarreal. My guess is we will come with a different formation. There need to be punishments for mistakes. No doubt.

But to imply they can’t be arsed is not correct. They were.

When you say Carvajal declined to being an average fullback, isn't that a motivation issue for you?

Anyways, for me, it's motivational. Not necessarily that they don't want to anymore, but after winning a lot of titles, it's harder and harder to keep a good level vs teams like Valladolid at home. This translates into a sluggish, slow game, without any sharpness, which is relatively easy to contain.

A motivated Madrid would've won this game 10 out of 10 times.

For me, the problems of Barcelona and Madrid are very similar. Both have insisted on the same older core and are struggling to make the transition to a younger fresher team.
 
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DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
When you say Carvajal declined to being an average fullback, isn't that a motivation issue for you?

Anyways, for me, it's motivational. Not necessarily that they don't want to anymore, but after winning a lot of titles, it's harder and harder to keep a good level vs teams like Valladolid at home.

A motivated Madrid would've won this game 10 out of 10 times.

With Carvajal I think it's the injuries he's suffered lately too. Been constantly injured last couple of seasons.
 

serghei

Senior Member
With Carvajal I think it's the injuries he's suffered lately too. Been constantly injured last couple of seasons.

Could be a mix of both actually. Marcelo got fat because he wasn't motivated enough to stay fit. Motivation is the one thing that makes world class players stay world class for as long as their body allows them to be.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
When you say Carvajal declined to being an average fullback, isn't that a motivation issue for you?

No. He was consistently a very hard worker on the pitch. You never see him waltzing back to defend like you do Marcelo, Kroos, Isco, Benzema, Bale. Injuries, bad partners.

Anyways, for me, it's motivational. Not necessarily that they don't want to anymore, but after winning a lot of titles, it's harder and harder to keep a good level vs teams like Valladolid at home. This translates into a sluggish, slow game, without any sharpness, which is relatively easy to contain.

A motivated Madrid would've won this game 10 out of 10 times.

Did you watch the game? Because it honestly feels like you didn't.

Last night is NOT the case of these players not being motivated. The game wasn't 'sluggish and slow' at all. They want to win, but they're either limited or old. They were chasing the score from minute 1 and they don't find it easy doing so. In the first half crowd was behind them with it being the first game back at home and they really were trying very hard.
But if you look at what kind of chances we created, you'll easily see where we struggle. It is NOT the fact that they're not 'trying' hard enough like [MENTION=15376]DonAK[/MENTION] implied with his trolly post. It's the lack of sharpness (Isco, 10 turnovers; James, played without much of a preseason + had an issue), but most of all lack of quality. When we're on the front foot and pinning an inferior team down like we did in the 1st half, there are several players whose limits are exposed.

a) Bale has 2 weapons - heading and beating a fullback to deliver a cross, often tries to do that with the outside of his left foot as well, instead of using his weak one. Other than that, he doesn't offer a lot from the flank. He's not agile enough to do the Robben cut-in bursts and telegraphs them. But that is why you scarcely see him doing anything else. At the very least, he is a very good crosser.

b) Benzema - he's a 32 year old striker who for all of his career worked on the ball a lot more than he works off it. Which effectively makes us need the tireless space seeker like Cristiano. A Jović. An Icardi. Whoever. What's worse is that because he has the annoying habit of asking for the ball, he is responsible for a lot of turnovers when he is muscled off it. He never had the best strength & balance.

c) Isco. Because at this point I don't know if he will ever regain a reliable touch that is needed off an attacking midfielder whenever we dominate. James finds it 100x easier to jump back into the team and make good decisions + not lose the ball like a mug. Also James is much better at finding his place on the pitch. Seen that shot he had from outside the box on a corner set-play they tried at least twice? Yeah. Isco is always played for his main quality of being a magnet for opponent's defenders. He drags players out and makes space. But what good is that when you have old dudes like Benzema, Marcelo and a guy like Kroos on his side? It's marginally better when a young winger is next to him, but not by much, because Asensio and Vini are mental younglings and they don't always realise what to do.

This isn't motivation. A lazy team doesn't pin the opponent down for such lengths of the game. And notice we're not talking about an entire game, only portions of it - they're getting old. Particularly in early summer and midday fixtures when the heat is on in Spain, they struggle.
 
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El Gato

Villarato!
Another waster. He's unlikely to finish his contract if this continues. Consistently the most problematic CM we have.
 

BarcaOG

Banned
holy crap, he was SO bad today. constantly made a fool of and danced around by the PSG midfield. i couldnt believe it.
 

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