Thiago Silva

JamDav1982 said:

There a difference between clubs looking to sign MORE 'Premier League Proven' players and making out top players abroad are not rated due to not being 'Premier League Proven'

Because there has been so much money in EPL there has been a hell of a lot of money wasted on foreign players as seen as the latest shiny toy. Some clubs have moved away from that and tried to get more of a UK based squad and more signings who have proven can fit in to the EPL. That means everything from handling the intensity of it to being comfortable living there.

Interesting you highlight a West Ham opinion from 2017 when they were almost relegated through going after so many foreign players at a high cost and foreign coach all of which more or less caused them to lose their identity. Since then have solidified with 'PL Proven' coach in Moyes and more British based players and 'PL Proven' players at spin of team.

Someone like Ben Chilwell being PL Proven is a massive plus as some players regardless of ability dont fit in any league at times. See Di Maria at United as prime example.

You just take it to heart and try to make out that 'PL Proven' is used as some kind of final stamp of authority for top players and used over those who have not played there when it isnt.

You lack a basic understanding of what is being said and once again apply it to chip on shoulder.

The amazing part is you not understanding being 'PL Proven' is a consideration for teams spending so much money.

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Yeah yeah, whatever.

First, it was just a cliche.

Then, the article was clickbait fake news.

Now, it is a consideration for teams spending so much money.

I'm fully aware of that last point as it has been highlighted by the high fee paid for a player like Maguire who is both PL proven and british, despite not being close to the best quality wise.

You have your view, i have mine. It has been made abundantly obvious we are not going to agree.

Newcomer said:

Yeah yeah, whatever.

First, it was just a cliche.

Then, the article was clickbait fake news.

Now, it is a consideration for teams spending so much money.

I'm fully aware of that last point as it has been highlighted by the high fee paid for a player like Maguire who is both PL proven and british, despite not being close to the best quality wise.

You have your view, i have mine. It has been made abundantly obvious we are not going to agree.

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It is a cliche if claiming to use it as proof that top players in other leagues are not rated as you made out.

You are the one that then tried to change what it means and showed it as term used by PL clubs to discuss signings.

So 'yeah yeah' that is why debate changed. From you not me.

It is a term used and rightly considered by clubs/fans with new signings. As it would be with every league going with certain signings.

You have chip on shoulder and try as many different angles as can to justify it. Simple.

JamDav1982 said:

It is a cliche if claiming to use it as proof that top players in other leagues are not rated as you made out.

You are the one that then tried to change what it means and showed it as term used by PL clubs to discuss signings.

So 'yeah yeah' that is why debate changed. From you not me.

It is a term used and rightly considered by clubs/fans with new signings. As it would be with every league going with certain signings.

You have chip on shoulder and try as many different angles as can to justify it. Simple.

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I'm not changing any meaning.

You are blind if you cannot see the bias from PL fans. If a player performs in a club abroad, they will constantly downscale it because it has not been made in the PL.

They are not saying a player like Thiago Silva or Messi is shit because he is not in PL. They are saying he would not be as good because the level is higher in their league, at least in the intensity. Then when this same player or another finally proves himself week in week out in the PL, they are hyping him way more than required. Because he is finally PL proven.

In the same vein, they will hype some average players, just because they are PL proven.

You mentioned the decade Spanish clubs were dominating in Europe previously (dunno what it had to do with the debate), PL fans were saying that their clubs didn't care about CL and they were at a disadvantage because of the fierce competition domestically. Again, not aknowledging the quality was far superior in the spanish teams. Even on this forum, there was a thread about this.

Nevertheless, as i said, we are never going to agree. You can keep claiming otherwise, it will not change.

You are changing meaning and started with this bizarre argument that Thiago Silva has not been noticed before Chelsea and now being overly praised.

Again chip on shoulder the overall opinion is Thiago Silva and Messi are top players and would succeed anywhere and opinions about 'cold night in Stoke' are ridiculed.

I never mentioned anything about a decade of Spain dominating so you cant try that one again before questioning why brought into debate.

Stop making up shit....dont think have ever heard anyone claim English teams dont care about CL. One of biggest debates in English football has been about catching up with the top Spanish teams and performing better in CL.

Latest chip on shoulder angle yet and the worst one.

JamDav1982 said:

You are changing meaning and started with this bizarre argument that Thiago Silva has not been noticed before Chelsea and now being overly praised.

Again chip on shoulder the overall opinion is Thiago Silva and Messi are top players and would succeed anywhere and opinions about 'cold night in Stoke' are ridiculed.

I never mentioned anything about a decade of Spain dominating so you cant try that one again before questioning why brought into debate.

Stop making up shit....dont think have ever heard anyone claim English teams dont care about CL. One of biggest debates in English football has been about catching up with the top Spanish teams and performing better in CL.

Latest chip on shoulder angle yet and the worst one.

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I'm not changing any meaning. My argument is not that they have been unnoticed. My argument is that they are overly praised when they do the same performance or even lower performance in PL because they have already declined.

Thiago Silva was touted as the best or one of the best CB in the world when he was at Milan AC. After some years at PSG, you could see people who follow football and other leagues still rating him as a top CB but his reputation started to go downhill after the WC in Brazil. Ever since, he wasn't consider that much, especially with PSG constant failure in CL.
Now that he is back in a more advertised league, suddenly, he is overly praised because people re"discover" his talent.

Everyone knows who Messi is and his legacy. Still, here, people have started to notice his decline. If he were to sign for Manchester City for example, you would see how overly praised he would be for putting what would seem rather average performance compared to what he would do week in week out in his prime at Bar?a.

I'm not making shit up not making up any claim. As you can see, i'm here on this foreign forum for years. I have been lurking on english PL clubs forum way before i had signed in on here. It is an argument that has been made a lot of time (PL clubs failing in Europe because of the competitivity of their league compared to mono- or duopoly in France, Germany, Spain, Italy).

I can see i have touch a strong nerve on you. Doesn't change that i'm only stating what i have seen and read over the years. This is how i formed my opinion and whatever you'll say won't change that fact.

And btw, if you want to accuse me of something, it wouldn't be anti PL bias but anti hype bias. A reason why i have often criticised Mbapp? over here. Is Mbapp? quality ? Absolutely. Is he overhyped ? Yes.

No...Thiago Silva was praised as the stand out CB in the world for years at Milan and PSG and is not receiving that level of praise or anywhere close at Chelsea. So that argument falls flat.

Of course he will get praised more playing well for Chelsea by EPL fans than same performances in French League...great point.

Of course Messi would get more praise if scoring week in week out in the league those folk are watching but he wont be held up as some better player than otherwise was because of it.

It is making up shit to claim there has ever been any serious argument about English teams not caring about CL. The narrative in English football has been the complete opposite and about trying to catch up with the top club teams and improving quality of youngsters coming through etc.

What you are saying is cliches of a small minority as happens in every league and using that as evidence of general opinions.

Tried various angles each one poorer than the one before and naive or ignorant to the general opinions from EPL media/fans.

JamDav1982 said:

No...Thiago Silva was praised as the stand out CB in the world for years at Milan and PSG and is not receiving that level of praise or anywhere close at Chelsea. So that argument falls flat.

Of course Messi would get more praise if scoring week in week out in the league those folk are watching but he wont be held up as some better player than otherwise was because of it.

It is making up shit to claim there has ever been any serious argument about English teams not caring about CL. The narrative in English football has been the complete opposite and about trying to catch up with the top club teams and improving quality of youngsters coming through etc.

What you are saying is cliches of a small minority as happens in every league and using that as evidence of general opinions.

Tried various angles each one poorer than the one before and naive or ignorant to the general opinions from EPL media/fans.

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Lol, you are going up every time with the disrespect in your post. I let it slide but then you are ending it with naive and ignorant now.

You can keep on denying it.

A quick internet search showed that "PL proven" is a thing used broadly and commonly in English football among fans. You would dismissed it as being fake news, cliche, small minorities.

I won't take whatever opinion you are trying to push as me being naive, ignorant or even "making shit up". I have seen and i have read those opinions many times.

Just recently, when Neymar showed a bit of his quality scoring the third goal against MU, some PL fans couldn't help but admit he is not just a diving, diva prick but also a very talented player.

You are intelligent enough to make the distinction but there are a lot of people who have formed their opinion about Neymar during the last World Cup and hate him for this reason till this day. We are talking about football here and bias is most certainly one of the most prevalent thing in fanbase.

Thiago Silva was not praised that much in the last few years. People have even mistakingly associated him as a loser because they think he was the captain in both the 6-1 and the 7-1 (Germany-Brazil) and his breakdown in penalty session for Brazil. Maybe you and people around you still rated him highly though.



Hope this latest chip on my shoulder will be the best or the worst one of of them all.

Btw, i'm talking about PL fans, i dunno why you are implying i'm talking about Enlgish media as large. They are professional and wouldn't say things like that despite their bias and their need to hype things up.

JamDav1982 said:

No...Thiago Silva was praised as the stand out CB in the world for years at Milan and PSG and is not receiving that level of praise or anywhere close at Chelsea. So that argument falls flat.

Of course he will get praised more playing well for Chelsea by EPL fans than same performances in French League...great point.

Of course Messi would get more praise if scoring week in week out in the league those folk are watching but he wont be held up as some better player than otherwise was because of it.

It is making up shit to claim there has ever been any serious argument about English teams not caring about CL. The narrative in English football has been the complete opposite and about trying to catch up with the top club teams and improving quality of youngsters coming through etc.

What you are saying is cliches of a small minority as happens in every league and using that as evidence of general opinions.

Tried various angles each one poorer than the one before and naive or ignorant to the general opinions from EPL media/fans.

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Since, it was my word against yours, you made me put in a very quick internet search.

Well, lets see where it goes.....

Lets see whho is making shit up and lets see who is naive and ignorant...

I think Dailymail is very much an English media.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...0/Why-English-clubs-bad-Champions-League.html


So why the decline?

The arguments have been heard many times before, and these are the most well-trodden:

Premier League clubs suffer from the increased intensity and strength in depth of their domestic competitions in comparison with their major Continental rivals.

Premier League clubs suffer from having no winter break, which allows Continental rivals to refresh physically and mentally ahead of the Champions League’s return in the new year.

Is there any truth in that?

Plenty. Just ask Gareth Bale, arguably the man most qualified of all to speak on the subject, having starred for Tottenham in Europe during the Premier League’s glory years before moving to Real Madrid and winning the Champions League twice in the last three years.

‘Every game in the Premier League you have to be at 100 per cent for 90 minutes or you will lose,’ he told Sportsmail recently. ‘In Spain, you can be up at half-time against the bottom club and take your foot off the gas. You can rest players and take people off. If you try for 45 minutes you won’t win a match in the Premier League.’

‘Obviously the winter break is massive. In England you’ll play four or five games and we don’t play any. You don’t get many rest days and it really does burn you out for a long time after that.’

‘It’s nice to really get away from it, mentally as well as physically.

‘Spanish teams definitely know they have this edge over the English. Every country does: Spain, Italy, Germany, they all have the winter break.’

Apparently, these arguments have been heard MANY TIMES !

Yes 'PL Proven' is a consideration for clubs and is discussed by fans for new players of course it is.

It is not used to play down top players from other leagues.

You are making shit up if think there has been any argument put forward about PL teams not caring about CL.

End of day you have bias that EPL players are over rated and cant handle the same opinions outwards from some in EPL to certain foreign players due to chip on shoulder.

The EPL fans wont comment so much on Thiago Silva week in week out performances in France.

You are taking minority opinions and trying to pass them off as widely held views to fit the chip.

End of day fans can look at EPL and cry about it and try to find reasons to justify that chip. Keep ignorant from the outside.

Debate over from me. Heard enough of the naivety and ignorance for one day.

Enjoy the French League.

He single-handedly stabilized Chelsea's defense. They were a mess last season, he knows how to guide these youngsters.

JamDav1982 said:

Yes 'PL Proven' is a consideration for clubs and is discussed by fans for new players of course it is.

It is not used to play down top players from other leagues.

You are making shit up if think there has been any argument put forward about PL teams not caring about CL.

End of day you have bias that EPL players are over rated and cant handle the same opinions outwards from some in EPL to certain foreign players due to chip on shoulder.

The EPL fans wont comment so much on Thiago Silva week in week out performances in France.

You are taking minority opinions and trying to pass them off as widely held views to fit the chip.

End of day fans can look at EPL and cry about it and try to find reasons to justify that chip. Keep ignorant from the outside.

Debate over from me. Heard enough of the naivety and ignorance for one day.

Enjoy the French League.

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Haha.

I noticed how you conveniently took half of the argument being made by EPL fan for their team failure in ECL. I said they were claiming they weren't caring about CL AND that they were at a disadvantage because of the compeittivity of their league.
Pretty weird that you just cut the argument in half to suit your rebuttal. You wouldn't even engage about the fact that the other half of the argument was openly admitted as an excuse for their shortcomings.

All i said was proven back by quick search on the internet (thus it is not a "i say, you say" discussion).

But you know better of course.

Thank you (not) for displaying your worth of knowledge. Thank you (not) for judging my ignorance and naive mind.

I think i had previous nice exchanges (transfer and FFP) with you but you come off as a real pric* trying to defend the honor of some PL fans.

I was enjoying my French League as i'm enjoying games in other leagues, including PL (even more than French game currently). The games being displayed have nothing to do with the fans opinion.

Brazilian Titus Bramble

Jadentheman said:

He single-handedly stabilized Chelsea's defense. They were a mess last season, he knows how to guide these youngsters.

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Exactly... he?s arguably been the best CB this season along with John Stones ... another player I was raving about years ago .

Since Stones was returned to the defence they?ve won 9 games on the bounce ... ( with 7 clean sheets I believe)

Crazy what a team can do after getting rid of its mental midgets

2nd CL final in a row. how funny it would be for PSG's 36 year old captain to win the CL the season right after he left them