Camp Nou

serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Luftstalag14 said:
The differences in ownership models serve no significance in their calculation of the brand value and strength though. I briefly skimmed through the report, it appears their evaluation of brand value is primarily based on revenues generated by the clubs so in this regard Manchester United is indeed on top, despite their lackluster performance on the pitch. The TV money aside, Manchester United's ability to generate so much commercial income is astounding, which means that brand of theirs still registers with a lot of people around the world, which translates into money.
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It's a poor definition of 'biggest brand' in that case. It's not only the brand per se that sells, it's actually the management behind it the techniques and methods used to promoted, the overall strategy. It's the United management that is the best at making the most out of the United brand. Biggest brand in football is Real Madrid, followed by Barcelona. It's been Madrid in the early 00's, then Barcelona, now it's back to Madrid due to their performances in the CL.

Biggest brand will always be tied with performances on the field. Everything else is marketing and promotion. These are football clubs we're talking about, not electronics companies. The popularity of the teams, their titles, trophies, the players they have, the football they play, all these define a football club brand more than anything.
 
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Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
serghei said:
It's a poor definition of 'biggest brand' in that case. It's not only the brand per se that sells, it's actually the management behind it the techniques and methods used to promoted, the overall strategy. It's the United management that is the best at making the most out of the United brand. Biggest brand in football is Real Madrid, followed by Barcelona. It's been Madrid in the early 00's, then Barcelona, now it's back to Madrid due to their performances in the CL.

Biggest brand will always be tied with performances on the field. Everything else is marketing and promotion.
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Real Madrid and us are certainly not far behind. Think about this, Real Madrid and us have been helped tremendously by Ronaldo and Messi in the last decade or so and yet we are still struggling to beat Manchester United from a revenue, especially commercial revenue-perspective. That goes to show Manchester United's brand strength, they managed to be on par with us and Real Madrid without tier-1 level stars and a lot of silverware and champions.

I disagree with the notion that biggest brands have to necessarily tied with performance (on the field or commercially/financially). Coca Cola is one of the world's biggest brands but they have been struggling (relatively and revenue-wise) for years. But everyone knows Cola Cola. The similar probably can be said of Manchester United.
 
Andrew M

Andrew M

New member
But the revenue of a football club is easy to measure. For most of the past 20 years Real Madrid has been on top. Yet Man Utd probably has had the most fans.

Liverpool might even have more fans than Real Madrid.

What makes a strong brand, however, is not so easy to measure. What is clear, though, is that we make the most money from sponsorship deals and commercial partners and I feel our international presence is stronger than Real Madrid's, who have more support in Spain.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Luftstalag14 said:
Real Madrid and us are certainly not far behind. Think about this, Real Madrid and us have been helped tremendously by Ronaldo and Messi in the last decade or so and yet we are still struggling to beat Manchester United from a revenue, especially commercial revenue-perspective. That goes to show Manchester United's brand strength, they managed to be on par with us and Real Madrid without tier-1 level stars and a lot of silverware and champions.

I disagree with the notion that biggest brands have to necessarily tied with performance (on the field or commercially/financially). Coca Cola is one of the world's biggest brands but they have been struggling (relatively and revenue-wise) for years. But everyone knows Cola Cola. The similar probably can be said of Manchester United.
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But how you define biggest brands? Real Madrid is always a bigger brand than Manchester United. It simply has more resonance in the sport. You can't apply this like with normal companies, a way of looking at it strictly in terms of numbers.

It's not the same. There are more factors that decide the value of a brand other than the commercial gain by way of promotion.

For example the best players sign for Barcelona and Madrid and say their dream was to sign for these teams. That is a classic example of brand power which can't be compared with United. Barcelona and Madrid have a lot of influence in the sport among professionals and avid fans in key areas like latin and latin-american countries.

United are probably the leaders of converting the brand power into revenue (shirt sales, ticket sales etc). But this is just one aspect of the matter. One would say Barcelona and Madrid are experts at using their brands to attract top talents in the industry. I would say this is the no1 most important use of the brand power in football, because the purpose of a football club is first to achieve success in the sport. And 2nd is to make money. Ability to attract the best in the industry is the key aspect of achieving the most important goal.
 
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Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
serghei said:
But how you define biggest brands? Real Madrid is always a bigger brand than Manchester United. It simply has more resonance in the sport. You can't apply this like with normal companies, a way of looking at it strictly in terms of numbers.

It's not the same. There are more factors that decide the value of a brand other than the commercial gain by way of promotion.

For example the best players sign for Barcelona and Madrid and say their dream was to sign for these teams. That is a classic example of brand power which can't be compared with United. Barcelona and Madrid have a lot of influence in the sport among professionals and avid fans in key areas like latin and latin-american countries.

United are probably the leaders of converting the brand power into revenue (shirt sales, ticket sales etc). But this is just one aspect of the matter. One would say Barcelona and Madrid are experts at using their brands to attract top talents in the industry. I would say this is the no1 most important use of the brand power in football, because the purpose of a football club is first to achieve success in the sport. And 2nd is to make money. Ability to attract the best in the industry is the key aspect of achieving the most important goal.
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I understand what you are saying, I don't deny that Real Madrid and us probably enjoy a slightly higher accolade among football players in general than Manchester United at the moment (it still depends on geography, I am guessing British players and players from former British colonies would prefer ManU over us and Real Madrid); however I believe the way they talk about and calculate value and brand strength etc. has the end consumers (us football fans and the general public) in mind, not players.

It makes sense because these football clubs, regardless of their ownership model, are viewed as businesses. At the end of the day businesses are measured by how the consumers perceive them and how much money they make.
 
Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Andrew M said:
But the revenue of a football club is easy to measure. For most of the past 20 years Real Madrid has been on top. Yet Man Utd probably has had the most fans.

Liverpool might even have more fans than Real Madrid.

What makes a strong brand, however, is not so easy to measure. What is clear, though, is that we make the most money from sponsorship deals and commercial partners and I feel our international presence is stronger than Real Madrid's, who have more support in Spain.
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Are you sure about this? I believe Manchester United, Real Madrid and Bayern all make more money/revenue from sponsorship deals and commercial partners (I meant by the commercial portion of revenue which includes sponsorship deals and merchandising) than us, from the last Deloitte Money League report, if I am not mistaken.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Luftstalag14 said:
I understand what you are saying, I don't deny that Real Madrid and us probably enjoy a slightly higher accolade among football players in general than Manchester United at the moment (it still depends on geography, I am guessing British players and players from former British colonies would prefer ManU over us and Real Madrid); however I believe the way they talk about and calculate value and brand strength etc. has the end consumers (us football fans and the general public) in mind, not players.

It makes sense because these football clubs, regardless of their ownership model, are viewed as businesses. At the end of the day businesses are measured by how the consumers perceive them and how much money they make.
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Slightly? There's a serious gap here.

For Barcelona/Madrid, it's much more important for a top player to view them as the best of the best, than for 40-50 dudes from Indonesia who aren't into football that much anyway to buy their shirt.

Businesses are measured by how much money they make. Football clubs are measured in terms of success in the field of football. You could say that United is a bigger commercial brand, while Barcelona and Madrid are the biggest brands in the football world, while being slightly under United in the commercial side.

If we are to put the equal sign between a corporation, and a football club, then yes, United would be the biggest brand. But football clubs are not in it to make money first and foremost.
 
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Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
serghei said:
Slightly? There's a serious gap here.

Which is a big problem. For Barcelona/Madrid, it's much more important for a top player to view them as the best, than 40-50 dudes from Indonesia who aren't into football that much anyway.

Businesses are measured by how much money they make. Football clubs are measured in terms of success in the field of football. You could say that United is a bigger commercial brand, while Barcelona and Madrid are the biggest brand in the football world.
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I think we speak with a certain La Liga/Barca-Real Madrid bias here. Fans of Manchester United and other fans might see things differently.

Let's see how Real Madrid and us (especially us) will cope in the post Ronaldo/Messi era.
 
Andrew M

Andrew M

New member
Luftstalag14 said:
Are you sure about this? I believe Manchester United, Real Madrid and Bayern all make more money/revenue from sponsorship deals and commercial partners (I meant by the commercial portion of revenue which includes sponsorship deals and merchandising) than us, from the last Deloitte Money League report, if I am not mistaken.
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If you scroll down you will see that Barca take in more annual sponsorship revenue than Utd and Real Madrid comfortably. Ours is set to grow even more with our Beko training kit deal as well as the Nike deal being in full swing from this season

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...most-valuable-soccer-teams-2018/#157059cb45c8
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Luftstalag14 said:
I think we speak with a certain La Liga/Barca-Real Madrid bias here. Fans of Manchester United and other fans might see things differently.

Let's see how Real Madrid and us (especially us) will cope in the post Ronaldo/Messi era.
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Nope. Not bias at all. Is it bias to say Premier League is the most popular league in the world? No. It's true. The same way it's true that Barcelona and Madrid are considerably more desired clubs to play for than Manchester United.
 
Andrew M

Andrew M

New member
JamDav1982 said:
Doesnt make any difference to the point.
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They have been evaluating the market for the last 2 years. Originally it was agreed that they would get 200 million but their research yielded that they should be able to get 300.

I'm not sure why they would lie and exaggerate the forecast.

Bartomeu has said recently that the costs of Espai Barca will be financed in these ways:

- 325ME from Camp Nou naming rights

- 200ME from syndicated loan from banks such as CaixaBank, Banc Sabadell, Banco Santander and Bankia

- 100ME from the clubs own resources
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Andrew M said:
They have been evaluating the market for the last 2 years. Originally it was agreed that they would get 200 million but their research yielded that they should be able to get 300.

I'm not sure why they would lie and exaggerate the forecast.

Bartomeu has said recently that the costs of Espai Barca will be financed in these ways:

- 325ME from Camp Nou naming rights

- 200ME from syndicated loan from banks such as CaixaBank, Banc Sabadell, Banco Santander and Bankia

- 100ME from the clubs own resources
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Still not really relevant to the point that they will get a lot less than other stadium naming rights as not giving up 'Camp Nou'.
 
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