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Thread: Fiorentina - Juve hatred gone to another level now

  1. #1
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    Fiorentina - Juve hatred gone to another level now

    "November 19, 2009

    A thorny friendship.

    http://theitalianview.tumblr.com/pos...rny-friendship

    After the final whistle had blown at the end of Fiorentina’s 2-0 home win against Liverpool in the Champions League, Fiorentina ‘ultras’ marched across the pitch towards the away fans proudly displaying a massive banner with the words, “Welcome Reds your story is for us a legend”.

    The two sets of fans had agreed to what in Italy is called a ‘gemellaggio’, a twinning.

    Whilst this gesture was not widely reported in England, it was warmly greeted. Dave Murphy of the LFC Official Supporters Club, Merseyside Branch, commented on the Liverpool website, “It promises to be a great occasion, so if you are traveling to the game be sure to come along and meet some of our new friends.”

    Despite the twinning happening this year Fiorentina fans have been wearing Liverpool scarves and singing ‘Amo Liverpool’ [I love Liverpool] for over twenty years. The reason this for this is upsettingly clear: Heysel.

    After the tragic events of the Heysel stadium disaster, 29 May 1985, thirty-nine people who went to watch the European Cup Final played between Juventus and Liverpool in Belgium never returned home. They were crushed when part of the stadium collapsed. This was caused by bianconeri supporters fleeing from a charging group of Liverpool fans. Thirty-two of the victims were Juventus fans, the other seven were neutrals, Belgian, French and a Northern Irishman.

    In the aftermath of the event other supporters in Italy showed almost unanimous solidarity with Juventus. Banners in many stadiums were displayed in remembrance of the dead.

    The scene was very different at Fiorentina’s Artemio Franchi stadium the Sunday after the Heysel disaster. Still smarting from losing the title on the last day of the 81/82 season to Juve the Fiorentina fans unveiled an altogether more tasteless banner:

    “Heysel: 39 gobbi in meno” [Heysel: 39 less Juve fans]

    In the years that have passed Fiorentina’s hatred of Juventus has grown and the invoking of Heysel and praise of Liverpool has not gone away.

    As can be imagined Juventus fans were outraged by this twinning. It was seen as an officialized smear on the memory of their ‘39 angels’.

    In the run-up to the match that would see Juventus hosting Fiorentina for the first time since the ‘gemellaggio’, Stefano Sartoni, the head of the ‘ultras’ group Collettivo Autonomo Viola that had initiated the twinning, attempted to defuse the situation, stating:

    “We know that the Juvetus fans haven’t taken it very well, that’s their problem. We’ve already explained the reason: we’ve always admired the Reds and Heysel is irrelevant.”

    Most Juventus fans were unconvinced by these words and during their meeting on the 17th of October they unveiled banners that read: “Honour to the Heysel fallen, we ask for respect” and “A twinning of squalor for fans without honour”.

    Despite the words of Sartoni as to the reason for the twinning, their fans arrived in Turin loaded with Liverpool scarves and a banner stating, “Amo Liverpool”. But more disturbingly fans were seen, and photographed, with Liverpool shirts featuring the name and number of an inexistent player: Meno [Less] 39.



    Though an innocence can be claimed in the ambiguity of Reds scarves and ‘loving Liverpool’, a shirt with ‘Meno 39’ leaves nothing to the imagination and no room for debate. It’s as clearly a reference to the Heysel dead as it is tasteless.

    The official Juventus response was striking; utter silence. The hierarchy is still weak following the events of ‘calciopoli’, but it is still shocking that they made no comment, did not denounce the Fiorentina fans, report them to the Federation or release any visuals of the culprits.

    In contrast, a week after the Juventus - Fiorentina match a comparable incident took place on British shores. A Millwall fan wore a Galatasaray shirt to their away match against Leeds, taunting the home fans over the deaths of Christopher Loftus and Kevin Speight. The two fans that were tragically killed before the clubs away Champions League clash against the Turkish giant.

    The actions of the Millwall fan lead to national outrage. Photos of the incident were splashed across newspapers and the Millwall chairman denounced the fan’s behaviour. The supporter is now facing the prospect of a lifetime ban.

    Conversely, in Italy there was no mention of the incident in any newspaper. This non-action has given rise to an astonishing campaign by Juventus fans; a mix of fan power and modern technology.

    Juventus fans across the Internet, on forums and social networking groups, have begun fighting against this twinning. They have been sharing evidence of misdeeds by Fiorentina fans, but, more intriguingly, they have begun talking to Liverpool fans on their forums.

    Since the events of Heysel there has been no love for Liverpool from the Juventus faithful. It is a part of their history they have never forgotten, partly for what they perceive as a lack of effort or care on Liverpool’s part to apologise for what happened.

    When the two teams met in 2005, the first time since the tragedy and by coincidence the 20th anniversary of the disaster, the Kop unveiled a huge sign reading, ‘Amicizia’ [friendship]. A large part of the travelling support turned their backs, for them this apology, after 20 years, was far too late.

    This twinning however has paradoxically opened communications betweens the two sets of fans. With an open letter by Juventus fans being published all over the Anfield club’s fan forums and other followers of the bianconeri joining online debates.

    In this message the Juve supporters give their view on the reason behind the twinning and many Liverpool fans, still wary of their reputation as a result of the Heysel incident, are taking note; not wishing to get involved in something that could potentially be a massive PR catastrophe.

    The Liverpool fans have been urged to test Fiorentina’s motives. Juventus fans have suggested that both clubs at the return match at Anfield make some kind of joint gesture in memory of Heysel. The Viola fans, who have also been making their voices heard of the same forums, have, for the moment, not taken kindly to the idea.

    Whether this campaign by Juventus fans is successful or not and a gesture is made in remembrance will be revealed when Liverpool host Fiorentina. What is certain, however, is that this ‘gemellaggio’ is not a problem that is going to be laid to rest any time soon, and that both Liverpool and Juventus will continue to be haunted by the ghosts of that tragic day in May 1985."

    Couple of points

    1) To tar all fiorentina fans with the same brush would be both ignorence and madness.

    2) We will never be able to stop idiot fans of any club doing stupid, insensitive things.

    I don't like the thought of our name being used to glorify/ Mock the death of 39 people, infact it sickens me. If the only reason the Fiorentina fans want a 'special relationship' with us, is to taunt juve fans then they can fuck off, its the type of sick thing I would expect from the everton or the mancs.

    If we do what the Juve fans ask (if we could organise it in time) then were basically tarring all Fiorentina fans with the same brush and accusing them of only doing the twinning as a plot to hurt Juventus fans.

    If we don't accuse them of doing that then Juventus fans assume that we don't want to start to improve the relationship between us and them and simply don't care.

    So what do we do? Were dammed if we do and were damned if we don't.
    "Its not about the long ball or the short ball, its about the right ball."
    Bob Paisley.

  2. #2
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    Who was the twinning agreed with in the first place? If it was the Viola ultras then you can be sure it was purely motivated by Heysel, if it was with another supporters group then the motives may indeed be more innocent. I don't think a gesture relating to Heysel is appropriate at the game tomorrow so I agree that it's a difficult situation but your relationship with Juve will take many more years to restore and nothing that happens tomorrow will change that.
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  3. #3
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    I will never forget the moment I tested the water, as such, and in an italian Juve forum as I could not find an all english one but one where the majority spoke Italian a few english people but mostly italian.

    It was in 2005 and we had been drawn against each other in the CL. Right off the bat I knew I wanted to discuss the game with some Juve fans, but of course I was apprehensive.

    So anyway I found that forum and the first few days were rough, even though I gave a heart felt opening thread, people were suspicious of me and I couldn't blame them. I tried to log in every day during that month before the 1st leg and made a few posts but felt kind of unwanted and left it for a week.

    The next week I see my thread right at the top of the page and a few Juve supporters seeing I was genuine started engaging in me with football talk. I had made the effort to get to know them and stick through the abuse but once a few people saw me as genuine a lot more of them came round to me on the forum and we had a right good laugh during those games.

    I kept in touch right through to Istanbul and I had earnt their respect by at least half of them wanting us to win because solely of me, which I was touched by.

    I made less appearances of the forum but I popped in when Italy won the world cup and when Juve were relegated, then another season and Liverpool were drawn to Barcelona in the CL and I decide to chat to some Barca fans about that game....

    I still keep in contact with 2 Juve fans who told me about what the viola were doing before it hit the headlines and I told them what I stated above.

    CA it was with the official viola supporters group I think, anyway the ultras would infiltrate any group that was doing this sort of thing to perpetuate their own agenda.
    Last edited by AnfieldEd; 8th December 2009 at 01:53 PM.
    "Its not about the long ball or the short ball, its about the right ball."
    Bob Paisley.

  4. #4
    Super Pippo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    1) To tar all fiorentina fans with the same brush would be both ignorence and madness.
    It really wouldn't Eddy, they are a bunch of shits. Only "honours" Florentia Viola are ever in contention for is with Lazio for the worst supporters. Very violent, very disrespectful and politically motivated. Scum.

  5. #5
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    I thought Eddy had given up on Liverpolonia?


    "Impavido Pectore"


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    booooo fiorentina!

    aligning with liverpool? YOU SUCK!

    IMAKEMADBEATS

  7. #7
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    Those banners were shocking I can't believe Juve or anyone else haven't done anything about it.


    God doesn't pick football teams but if he did.... they'd probably look like this

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    Viola fans are notorious for doing their own thing, there's a vocal minority of Fiorentina fans who refuse to sport the Azzuri after all, and one of the ultra groups they are close to personally are the violent fascists of Hellas Verona (though the fact that those twats made racist chants against Fiorentina fans last time they played was not exactly well recieved)

    Pippo's hyperbole aside they used to be among the most violent ultras in Italy, but I don't think the friendship between Viola and Liverpool fans is just about hatred for Juve, though sticking the finger at Juve and the rest of Italy is a big part of it.

    But I mean come on, Barcelona fans get along with Liverpool fans too, I don't like Liverpool myself but their fans have an (exaggerated) reputation for being vocal and passionate, especially compared to the glory hunters at the London clubs. This isn't completely black and white.

    Anyway fuck the haters and fuck Juve, Forza Viola!

  9. #9
    Super Pippo
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    Whats your point exactly? Their violent communists, not violent facists so it's ok?

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    they are all scum aside from perhaps milan and roma (may be very wrong here)

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    I think you've asked for it with that statement hamzah.


    God doesn't pick football teams but if he did.... they'd probably look like this

  12. #12
    blueduck
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamzah View Post
    they are all scum aside from perhaps milan and roma (may be very wrong here)
    Calling Italians scum?

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    by that i mean violent facist/communist views. although i think nearly every ultra group is like that in mainland europe.

  14. #14
    Super Pippo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamzah View Post
    they are all scum aside from perhaps milan and roma (may be very wrong here)
    As far as i'm concerned all ultra groups are a waste of oxygen. Luckily at Milan our largest group FDL dispanded a few years ago, so in comparison to the size of our support, we have far fewer ultras. Roma aren't great to be honest, they benefit alot from being cast next to Lazio, who are of course dreadful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueduck View Post
    Calling Italians scum?
    no.