Thiago Alcantara

MessiCam said:

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], Thiago is a magnificent player defensively too. He makes way more tackles and interceptions than Rakitic. He is just a better midfielder all round.

I don’t know why this is even being debated.

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Bundesliga midfield defensive stats are not comparable to la liga according to a friend of mine who watches alot of Bundesliga matches.

According to him teams there play more chaotically, for the lack of a better word, with possession quickly switching compared to liga or even epl teams

Behrox said:

Bundesliga midfield defensive stats are not comparable to la liga according to a friend of mine who watches alot of Bundesliga matches.

According to him teams there play more chaotically, for the lack of a better word, with possession quickly switching compared to liga or even epl teams

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Its true to an extent but both have pretty much the same stats in league and CL, so what's the explanation for that? They are on par in intercepts and Thiago has more tackles. Not too shabby considering many make it look like Thiago can't defend at all.

And Rakitic is our best CM defensively, compare him to Paulinho, Gomes or Iniesta and its actually funny how bad our midfielders are defensively.

Some people also seem to forget that we don't have to play with the same midfield every game. It's not like we have to drop Rakitic from the squad, they could also play together if needed. Thiago is versatile, he could play at every midfield position. He would just be a huge improvement all around. The only bad thing are his injuries that are a problem.

As the market progresses, I grudgingly admit that Thiago is probably the best 24-27 year old option to go for while allowing Arthur and/or De Jong to develop.

I can see why Segura would be p*ssed about him returning, especially considering that he renewed his contract last season.

But then again if these guys can blow 40million on Paulinho from China, how the hell are they going to negotiate a good deal with Bayern, Juve or Spurs for prime aged mids?

Behrox said:

Bundesliga midfield defensive stats are not comparable to la liga according to a friend of mine who watches alot of Bundesliga matches.

According to him teams there play more chaotically, for the lack of a better word, with possession quickly switching compared to liga or even epl teams

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He is playing for a team that has a lot possession. So no - in that case it is not really different. Bayern has even more possession than Barcelona has. Bayern as team has 17.9 tackles - Barcelona has 16.6 - whereas Bayern has 10.4 interceptions per match and Barcelona has 11.2.

Behrox said:

Bundesliga midfield defensive stats are not comparable to la liga according to a friend of mine who watches alot of Bundesliga matches.

According to him teams there play more chaotically, for the lack of a better word, with possession quickly switching compared to liga or even epl teams

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I get that and I would never compare leagues in a direct manner.

But... Even as a kid in La Liga he was bang on defensively. What makes him so good defensively is his anticipation.

Porque said:

As the market progresses, I grudgingly admit that Thiago is probably the best 24-27 year old option to go for while allowing Arthur and/or De Jong to develop.

I can see why Segura would be p*ssed about him returning, especially considering that he renewed his contract last season.

But then again if these guys can blow 40million on Paulinho from China, how the hell are they going to negotiate a good deal with Bayern, Juve or Spurs for prime aged mids?

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Pretty much, after spending 40m on Paulinho, Thiago is a nobrainer - especially for the rumoured price.

You could justify everything after the bad Paulinho/Arda/Gomes deals. Making mistakes does not mean the floodgates are open for more mistakes though. In Thiago's case it wouldn't be a sporting mistake, he is clearly not a dud, but a principle mistake nonetheless. It gives a bad signal to every future Barca youngstar that you can bolt if you aren't immediately getting the minutes you want and the club will eventually buy you back anyway a couple years later.

And I still haven't got an answer why people think an exceptionally well run club like Bayern is willing to let go of a supposed super player who had just renewed his contract, why 3 experienced high-profile managers (Pep, Ancelotti, Heynckes) sat his ass on the bench in crunch games, including his father figure who also does not want him for his new club despite his availability and why he is not a clear starter for Spain. On top of it comes injury concerns. This is the best option Barca has got?

This forum over the years had its strange fixations (Benatia, Sampaoli, Seri) and this is another one to add to the list.

Ursegor said:

You could justify everything after the bad Paulinho/Arda/Gomes deals. Making mistakes does not mean the floodgates are open for more mistakes though. In Thiago's case it wouldn't be a sporting mistake, he is clearly not a dud, but a principle mistake nonetheless. It gives a bad signal to every future Barca youngstar that you can bolt if you aren't immediately getting the minutes you want and the club will eventually buy you back anyway a couple years later.

And I still haven't got an answer why people think an exceptionally well run club like Bayern is willing to let go of a supposed super player who had just renewed his contract, why 3 experienced high-profile managers (Pep, Ancelotti, Heynckes) sat his ass on the bench in crunch games, including his father figure who also does not want him for his new club despite his availability and why he is not a clear starter for Spain. On top of it comes injury concerns. This is the best option Barca has got?

This forum over the years had its strange fixations (Benatia, Sampaoli, Seri) and this is another one to add to the list.

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Who would you rather have who’s available?

Even in the poor season that just finished, he is the 7th highest ranked player on whoscored.com

2nd highest succesful pass percentage (91.5 % with an average of 68 passes/game is insane)

2.4 tackles pr. game and 1.4 interceptions (compared to James Rodrigues who has 1.5 tackes and 0.5 interceptions shows how good Thiago is defensively as well).

He is THE player for us to get, but this FUCKING shite board with the DONKEY Segura and fat-rat Farto are instead chasing players that are clearly inferior to Thiago (Pjanic is a decent player, but too fucking slow like the rest of our retirement home in midfield; we need some pace and some fast thinking. Pjanic looks like a younger Rakitic)

Vilarrubi said:

Who would you rather have who’s available?

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Instead of buying him since all other available options suck, why not wait till next summer and then buy some real-deal player?

Also, maybe Cou-Rakitic partnership will work.
Maybe Arthur will turn to be a good player.
Maybe Alena will improve.
Maybe the other Alcantara, Rafinha, will stay fit and improve in terms of impact and similar.

Also, for guys who want Thiago, where do you see him play?
1. at Iniesta's position, in Thiago-Rakitic duo
2. or as a Xavi, in Coutinho-Thiago duo
3. or in some crazy, defensive duo Arthur-Thiago?

We have seen lots of times that when a lot of different coaches in a row "don't trust" in a player, it usually isn't coach's fault, but a player has some serious flaws.
On the other hand, when a player (who looks average to fans) is played over and over by several different coaches, there is usually some deeper reason.
(Ok, there is always a case like Gomes, but in general this rule works).

Then on one hand, as others said, we have:
1. Thiago, whom Barca let go somewhat easily
2. whom Bayern will let go
3. whom Pep is not interested in anymore, and yet, he is buying every single Barca's DNA midfielder in the world (Bernardo, Gundogan, Jorginho).
If Thiago is available and SO GOOD, wouldn't it be logical that Pep would have been all over him this summer?
4. Spanish NT. They have awesome midfielders, but still.. even old Iniesta is a starter there.

Then, we have Rakitic, whom people probably want to get benched for Thiago:
1. he is a player who has played the highest amount of matches in the last 4 years for Barca:
Rakitic 214
Messi 212
Busquets 198
Suarez 198
Pique 180
Iniesta 167
2. in all his previous teams, in the last 8 seasons, he was a starter and played:
55, 51, 57, 51, 52, 42, 39, 42.
So, in the last 8 years, he played less than 40 matches only in 1 season (when he moved from Schalke to Sevilla during a winter break).
Also, he has 91 NT matches and plays as a starter since 20 aged.
I know, Croatia is way weaker than Spain.
But, on other hand, Croatia has their own Thiago, in Kovacic. Who is a benchwarmer under EVERY SINGLE NT Coach, while Modric+Rakitic+some random 3rd dude always play.
So, that's an interesting fact that Kovacic is never a starter, while Rakitic is always an NT starter, since the age 20.
Then, even on a club level, Rakitic is always a starter, while Kovacic is a squad player. Is it a coincidence or coaches "know" and "see" more than we see?

So, Thiago moves nicely and has a nice technique and passing, but too many clubs and coaches have gave up on him, to some extent.
Someone could mention Kroos here and say: Bayern has also let him go.
True, but he is still a starter and a key player for Real and for a German NT.
Thiago isn't a key player in any club, and is not playing for an NT team.
So, a comparison with Kroos won't work here.

At the end of a day, Thiago is a nice, shiny footballer, but he surely isn't as good as our forum rates him, and Barca, Bayern, Pep and Spanish NT coaches are a proof for that.

And one more time, what is his position?
1. a new Iniesta?
2. or a new Xavi?

If he is a new Iniesta, Rumenigge and Matthaus said that he can leave because he is not good in attacking part of his play.
So, he can't be a new Iniesta for Barca.
On the other hand, if he will play on Xavi's position, what about Rakitic then?
A guy with the highest amount of matches played for Barca in the last 4 years?
There must be some reason why Rakitic is so loved by coaches (Lucho, EV, NT coaches), except those obvious, classical reasons: does he have EV's nudes or what?

So, would you bench Raki, whom all coaches love, for Thiago, a guy whom all clubs/coaches are willing to let go in his prime years (Barca at 22, Bayern at 27).

Guys, think about it a little.
There must be some reason why everyone is letting go Thiago.
Again, except the obvious: the coach is an idiot.

Saladin said:

Even in the poor season that just finished, he is the 7th highest ranked player on whoscored.com

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On Whoscored:
Neymar had a better rating than Coutinho against Switzerland.
And on whoscored, Cesc is one of the best midfielders in defensive part of the game, ouch.

Ursegor said:

You could justify everything after the bad Paulinho/Arda/Gomes deals. Making mistakes does not mean the floodgates are open for more mistakes though. In Thiago's case it wouldn't be a sporting mistake, he is clearly not a dud, but a principle mistake nonetheless. It gives a bad signal to every future Barca youngstar that you can bolt if you aren't immediately getting the minutes you want and the club will eventually buy you back anyway a couple years later.

And I still haven't got an answer why people think an exceptionally well run club like Bayern is willing to let go of a supposed super player who had just renewed his contract, why 3 experienced high-profile managers (Pep, Ancelotti, Heynckes) sat his ass on the bench in crunch games, including his father figure who also does not want him for his new club despite his availability and why he is not a clear starter for Spain. On top of it comes injury concerns. This is the best option Barca has got?

This forum over the years had its strange fixations (Benatia, Sampaoli, Seri) and this is another one to add to the list.

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My guess is that Bayern are fed up with his injuries, they also have Goretzka arriving for free, so they'll have plenty of injury free midfielders.

The thing about being benched in a big games, well, when he played against RM at Barnabeu, he looked quite well, so maybe benching him really is a mistake? But even if he is not a big game player, he is entertaining to watch. Do you really enjoy watching Rakitic playing just because he is not benched for big games? Personally I don't, it was like 2-3 games last season when I enjoyed Rakitic playing and that was when he was playing as DM when Busi was injured.

Ursegor said:

You could justify everything after the bad Paulinho/Arda/Gomes deals. Making mistakes does not mean the floodgates are open for more mistakes though. In Thiago's case it wouldn't be a sporting mistake, he is clearly not a dud, but a principle mistake nonetheless. It gives a bad signal to every future Barca youngstar that you can bolt if you aren't immediately getting the minutes you want and the club will eventually buy you back anyway a couple years later.

And I still haven't got an answer why people think an exceptionally well run club like Bayern is willing to let go of a supposed super player who had just renewed his contract, why 3 experienced high-profile managers (Pep, Ancelotti, Heynckes) sat his ass on the bench in crunch games, including his father figure who also does not want him for his new club despite his availability and why he is not a clear starter for Spain. On top of it comes injury concerns. This is the best option Barca has got?

This forum over the years had its strange fixations (Benatia, Sampaoli, Seri) and this is another one to add to the list.

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Principle mistake? Do you think people like Segura and this corrupted board knows anything about principles? When Bartomeu was asked a few months ago if he would welcome Neymar back after one of the most embarrassing transfer sagas in the history of the club followed by a lawsuit, his reply was: "Of course yes, We enjoyed him for four seasons and he is a very good player. I do not think that PSG wants to sell him.".

You asked a question why Bayern is willing to let go, let me rephrase the question and throw it back at you, If you think Bayern didn't value Thiago then why did they renew his contract last year? This is what K.H. Rummenigge said about him just last year and that's what we all know and witnessed: "Thiago is one of the best and therefore most popular midfielders in Europe,"

Thiago was a starter for Pep and Ancelotti and started all the UCL KO matches (when healthy) so don't makeup shit here saying managers sat his ass on the bench. This is a lie!

If the player is unsettled in a club, Bayern can't do much more to force him to stay.

BBZ8800 said:

Instead of buying him since all other available options suck, why not wait till next summer and then buy some real-deal player?

Maybe Arthur will turn to be a good player.

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Arthur isn't coming until January and expect him to have a bench role for at least a season like Mina.

I'm missing the point about Rakitic, so he's played a lot of games..... so has Suarez but does that make him good for us?

He is better than all of our CMs, playmaking/offense/defense no matter where you put him in the midfield he would make us better. He's leagues above players like Gomes, Paulinho or Denis and until we know for sure also Arthur. Big improvement all around no matter who we might sign in the future or why Bayern is considering to sell him.

People always cry for more depth and quality but when we might get the chance to sign Thiago for a decent price you suddenly hear stuff like sign nobody or only go for talents or players we won't get anyway (Eriksen).

There is no reason not to sign him except his injury record.