Thiago Alcantara

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Hamzah

High Definition Member
Xavi controlled the game while Iniesta could carry the ball to dangerous areas and was more incisive with his runs
 
Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
The goals/assists in that team would not have been matched by likes of Thiago and Veratti though so comparison not really relevant to that side.

Basically there is a load of different ways a team can be set up to get those goals/assists.

Modric and Kroos have basically been in a 4-4-2 for a lot of those CL wins as well. Isco was added to the midfield central area last season for example to give them more atacking edge which they lacked a bit from midfield.

Even the Ancelotti win Di Maria virtually played in CM for that run to give them more from midfield which they lacked a bit.

No one is rating midfielders on goal contribution but it is easier to play with more 'no 8' types if they give that goal/assist production and nothing lacking on that side of it.
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The comparison with Xavi and Iniesta is already off, because Xavi and Iniesta are 2 of the greatest mids of all time with the GOAT to serve balls on a plate. Not a single potential midfield combination could match that dominance obviously. But the reason why I mentioned them was because it displayed a model of 2 balanced mids providing support everywhere on the pitch as opposed to the model of a single pure offensive playmaker that gets bailed out by a water carrier. The role of Isco for offensive support is already given at Barca, because Messi is there.
 
Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
Imo, Coutinho is Messi compared to Thiago attacking wise.
Coutinho is a true wizzard in attack.

Further, about comments from other people how we should play Coutinho-Thiago-Busquets midfield and how people are getting wet, lol.

So, under EV, we managed to create a team which has clean sheets in 80% of matches, people would suddenly throw all that sway and let's try to copy again Xavi-Iniesta era (which isn't working for years, lol).
For those who will reply: but Real had Xavi-Iniesta-esque team. Lol, they didn't. They had physically STRONGER and faster midfielders, plus attackers who can score both with feet and head, unlike our attackers and midfielders.

So, one more time, Real evolved Xavi-Iniesta midfield into strong+fast+techical midfield plus strong+fast+technical forwards, who can score from an open play, from crosses, from free kicks.
And then we have Barca's fans, who are trying to ignore that fact and who would like to go back to: LET'S GO BACK TO short Xavi-Iniesta type of players with short Messi-Griezmann and similar players in attack.
Yeah, sounds awesome.
I can predict lots of defeats against AM, Juve, Bayern and Psg in CL knockout matches for that short and technical team.

So, since we are buying Coutinho, our team will already be slightly weaker and shorter in defense than now.
Call me crazy, but I would rather play Coutinho-Rakitic-Busi than Cou (171 cm)-Thiago (174 cm)-Busi against Juve or Psg.

There is a reason why Barca's teams for the last 20 years looked like children whenever we played against physical teams.

Also, people are too obsessed with possession and domination.
Imo, if we had Coutinho available for a CL, our team would be a clear favorite to win it. With Messi-Cou and even guys like Raki and Paulinho behind them.

THIS IS NOT 2009' anymore.
Short technical players won't win CLs ever again.
Unless if their team has evolved in strength+pace in midfield and in strength+pace+scoring both with feet&head in attack.

But let's ignore this one more time and try with short technical players for the 100th time in a row and hope for a different result against AM, AM, Juve, PSG this time.
Good luck with that.
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let's buy Fellaini.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Yannik said:
let's buy Fellaini.
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3 Coutinhos won't work.
3 Rakitics won't work.

Coutinho-Rakitic will work better than 3 Coutinhos.

442 with Iniesta-Paulinho-Rakitic-Busquets would cope better against Juve, Real and Psg than a mighty Cou-Thiago-Busi 433.
 
H

Hamzah

High Definition Member
BBZ8800 said:
3 Coutinhos won't work.
3 Rakitics won't work.

Coutinho-Rakitic will work better than 3 Coutinhos.

442 with Iniesta-Paulinho-Rakitic-Busquets would cope better against Juve, Real and Psg than a mighty Cou-Thiago-Busi 433.
Click to expand...

You understand the importance of balance in football, it's the most impressive aspect of valverde time at barca so far
 
Yannik

Yannik

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
3 Coutinhos won't work.
3 Rakitics won't work.

Coutinho-Rakitic will work better than 3 Coutinhos.

442 with Iniesta-Paulinho-Rakitic-Busquets would cope better against Juve, Real and Psg than a mighty Cou-Thiago-Busi 433.
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I disagree, Mourinho. I think better players will cope better against better teams. ManCity ranks 20th in the PL height ranking. West Brom is 1st. You are greatly overrating the importance of height imo. It's an additional factor o be considered, just ranks considerably further down the priority list than you put it.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Yannik said:
The comparison with Xavi and Iniesta is already off, because Xavi and Iniesta are 2 of the greatest mids of all time with the GOAT to serve balls on a plate. Not a single potential midfield combination could match that dominance obviously. But the reason why I mentioned them was because it displayed a model of 2 balanced mids providing support everywhere on the pitch as opposed to the model of a single pure offensive playmaker that gets bailed out by a water carrier. The role of Isco for offensive support is already given at Barca, because Messi is there.
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Well yeah that would have been easier to say but pointing to Xavi and Iniesta as any example is useless.

It only worked as they provided those goals assists in final third. Could have all the balance in the world but if lacking penetration going forward it wont work which is why saying Thiago and another like Verratti is irrelevant really.

Isco is not their Messi and they had a goal scoring machine in Ronaldo on top of their Messi if that is the case. Which Barca dont.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
BBZ8800 said:
3 Coutinhos won't work.
3 Rakitics won't work.

Coutinho-Rakitic will work better than 3 Coutinhos.

442 with Iniesta-Paulinho-Rakitic-Busquets would cope better against Juve, Real and Psg than a mighty Cou-Thiago-Busi 433.
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You didn't want Pogba though. Would have added technique and height/strength.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Yannik said:
I disagree, Mourinho. I think better players will cope better against better teams. ManCity ranks 20th in the PL height ranking. West Brom is 1st. You are greatly overrating the importance of height imo. It's an additional factor o be considered, just ranks considerably further down the priority list than you put it.
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Coutinho-Thiago-Busi will be good against 90% of teams.
Especially against Getafe and similar.

The problem will be matches against Juve, Psg, AM.

Man City's short players are the similar example.
They won't have problems against West Bromwich and Everton.
They could have insane problems against Juve, Bayern and similar.

About West Bromwich's height, again, I mentioned 3 factors:
1. technical ability
2. a pure pace
3. physical strength and height

You don't need to have all players with all skills, but you can't have 11 Xavis in 2018.
It just won't work.

About your remark about Fellaini from the previous post, a guy is only tall and strong.
He sucks in technique.
And he is the slowest player in the world.
So, he has 1 out 3 required skills to win a CL in 2018'.

So, short technical players from Xavi-Iniesta era or from Man City (or from any Pep's team) will be good against 90% of weaker teams and will be in general a joy to watch.
But most often (except in Xavi-Messi-Iniesta era), Pep's team won't win a shit in a CL.
There will always be some physically stronger or counterattacking faster team and Pep's philosophy will crumble, as always (except when he had Messi).
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
DonAK said:
You didn't want Pogba though. Would have added technique and height/strength.
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We had MSN then.
A team which wasn't a team and we were all over the place.

I didn't want another clown in a team back then plus who offers zero control.
We were chaotic and Pogba would have created even more chaos in our play.

So:
1. Pogba with Neyclown, MSN and Lucho
2. is a different Pogba for a current Barca

Plus, Pogba's technique and style is just strange.
Again, I would still rather keep our Rakitic for our style than him.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
City dont have that short a team.

Their first choice back four is a decent size and likes of KDB, Fernandinho, Sane etc are not short.

Even back ups like Kompany, Mangala, Danilo, Toure etc can all add a bit of power.
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
Hamzah said:
You understand the importance of balance in football, it's the most impressive aspect of valverde time at barca so far
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Exactly.
Reading some posts in the forum....Suarez, Griezmann, Dembele, Messi, Coutinho, Iniesta as starter :facepalm:
 
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