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Thread: Thiago Alcantara

  1. #7936
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    If the guy leaves and gives Barca no chance to move and keep him before Man U comes with the money, I personally never want to see him in a Blaugrana shirt ever, even if he wins the ballon d'or in 2015 and declares immediately that he misses Barca and would play there for free for the rest of his career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeGea Loves Doughnuts View Post
    Good post and i see perfectly where your coming from, id probably say the exact same thing in your shoes.

    But heres the thing, firstly there's no guarantee when Xavi will call it a day, it could be in the next 2 years, it could be next year, it may not be in 3 years, ive seen legends at my own club play on till nearer 40 and still be great players, now thats rare i know and our midfield dosnt have anything like the options yours has but its not impossible that Xavi remains good enough for at least the next 2 or 3 years, theres no guarantee for thiago when this spot becomes available full time.

    Secondly there's the small matter of fabregas and to a lesser extent Iniesta, Iniesta is one of those 28-29 year olds in his prime you describe and is going nowhere, Fabregas is in direct competition for that Xavi spot along with Thiago, and at the moment hes ahead of Thiago so its not even just a case of when Xavi cant play Thiago can, Fabregas needs games to, and given how much effort your club went to to get him back from arsenal for great expense i don't see you ignoring him to the level it would currently require to satisfy Thiagos needs, is that fair?

    For what its worth we said the same things to Pogba about being patient, used club legends like Scholes and Giggs as examples of what rewards patience, told him to wait and hed get there, he wasn't interested and sought the riches and regular games at another club, the point here is not all players care what others previously did, Thiago might not be infatuated with emulating Xavi and Iniesta's route to he top, he might not care to wait another year or 2 or even 3 to make the grade when he can do so right now, i dont know, but not all players can be convinced by that talk as we know to our cost very recently, also Thiago might say it was different for these players, they didnt have a Xavi or an Iniesta ahead of them.

    As for Moyes, time will tell, im 50/50 myself, he did a great job at Everton on a nothing budget and had them regularly competing in and around European places with a team that had no right to be there. Hes a gamble in the sense hes got no top club experience but you only get that by being given the chance, a few years ago Jurgen Klopp relegated Mainz from the Bundesliga, no one outside of Germany had heard of him, fast forward to today and hes hot property, one of the most sought after managers in the world, but prior to him being given the Dortmund job hed had no previous history of success and was in a sense a big gamble, you guys have done similar things with Guardiola and Tito, although granted they were in house appointments the sentiment is the same, they were total unknowns at this level, but you gave them a chance, sometimes thats the best way to go.
    Good post, and the Pogba analogy was spot on. I guess it depends on what Thiago's true ambitions are.

    In an ideal world from our perspective, we would keep Thiago, cut Xavi's involvement down in La Liga in Copa del Rey and let Cesc and Thiago duke it out for that time, depending on form. Cesc does complicate things a bit. Idk, personally it really is an embarrassment of riches on our part that we have this problem.

    As for Xavi specifically, he's the kind of guy who I think "gets it" enough to where he wouldn't mind cutting down his own playing time for the sake of the future of this club. I personally always wanted Pep to stick along until Xavi retires and then Xavi start coaching the team but that obviously didn't play out. Particularly since he was exactly in the same situation Thiago was when Pep was still playing, I think he would understand. The thing about Xavi is that he would be a GREAT sub for us as he can immediately make an impact on the flow of games, perfect for slowing down and controlling the tempo if we are defending a lead so in that sense, I could see him being here for a while. But there is a way Tito could make it work and it would also promote some healthy competition between Thiago and Cesc which would bring the best out of both players. Ideally, Xavi-Iniesta should be our go to combo for the big games (el clasico, CL knockouts) but as long as there is a lot of rotation between all four, there should be enough time to spread around. Cesc can also sub for Messi in the false 9 role as well, which would allow Thiago more time in the midfield. Point being, we can make it work as long as Tito can rotate (something I am personally rather skeptical about, don't get me started on him).

    Moyes has the capabilities to be a success, bc like you said what he has done for Everton on a very tight budget for such a long time has been very impressive. I just think these first few years might be a little rough, you guys need to give him like a good two, maybe even three years before he can make the team his own. I just hope you stay patient with the guy.

    Ultimately, the only person that has any sway in the Thiago saga is Tito. If he can figure out a way to rotate the squad enough and help usher in the transition for the new generation players (Alves for Montoya, Xavi for Thiago/Cesc, Puyol for Bartra/new CB) then I don't see our dominance stopping anytime soon. But his policy that he followed last season is what made this entire mess and if he doesn't get this season in particular right, I truly fear for the future of the club. Between our whole AM conundrum, our defense and Neymar's impact, this season is arguably the most important we have had since the end of the Rijkaard era, truly make or break.

    If Thiago does leave tho, I hope Moyes can get the best out of him. Thiago alone tho will not fix your midfield, and if you guys are going to try and go more for possession than CAs, he's going to need to make a lot of adjustments to the squad.

    Btw, Nani's red card was probably the biggest bullshit call (next to the no call on Muller's body check on Alba in the lead up to Robben's goal against us in the first leg) of CL last season as you were completely outplaying Madrid in that game, I truly felt sorry for you guys. I would have fancied you against Bayern, would have put up a much better fight than we did, that's for sure.

  3. #7938
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    So hes on holiday now, likely agreed personal terms with those interested. So Madrid, Us or Bayern. Personally hoping we are waiting for manager on 1st july.

    Edit : Or is barca renewal still on the cards like rafinha?
    Last edited by Martindn; 27th June 2013 at 08:20 PM.

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    he should imagine this:Barca against manu match. Either he chose to be in the team's mid who plays the match, or the one who watches it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_blaugrana View Post
    Good post, and the Pogba analogy was spot on. I guess it depends on what Thiago's true ambitions are.

    In an ideal world from our perspective, we would keep Thiago, cut Xavi's involvement down in La Liga in Copa del Rey and let Cesc and Thiago duke it out for that time, depending on form. Cesc does complicate things a bit. Idk, personally it really is an embarrassment of riches on our part that we have this problem.

    As for Xavi specifically, he's the kind of guy who I think "gets it" enough to where he wouldn't mind cutting down his own playing time for the sake of the future of this club. I personally always wanted Pep to stick along until Xavi retires and then Xavi start coaching the team but that obviously didn't play out. Particularly since he was exactly in the same situation Thiago was when Pep was still playing, I think he would understand. The thing about Xavi is that he would be a GREAT sub for us as he can immediately make an impact on the flow of games, perfect for slowing down and controlling the tempo if we are defending a lead so in that sense, I could see him being here for a while. But there is a way Tito could make it work and it would also promote some healthy competition between Thiago and Cesc which would bring the best out of both players. Ideally, Xavi-Iniesta should be our go to combo for the big games (el clasico, CL knockouts) but as long as there is a lot of rotation between all four, there should be enough time to spread around. Cesc can also sub for Messi in the false 9 role as well, which would allow Thiago more time in the midfield. Point being, we can make it work as long as Tito can rotate (something I am personally rather skeptical about, don't get me started on him).

    Moyes has the capabilities to be a success, bc like you said what he has done for Everton on a very tight budget for such a long time has been very impressive. I just think these first few years might be a little rough, you guys need to give him like a good two, maybe even three years before he can make the team his own. I just hope you stay patient with the guy.

    Ultimately, the only person that has any sway in the Thiago saga is Tito. If he can figure out a way to rotate the squad enough and help usher in the transition for the new generation players (Alves for Montoya, Xavi for Thiago/Cesc, Puyol for Bartra/new CB) then I don't see our dominance stopping anytime soon. But his policy that he followed last season is what made this entire mess and if he doesn't get this season in particular right, I truly fear for the future of the club. Between our whole AM conundrum, our defense and Neymar's impact, this season is arguably the most important we have had since the end of the Rijkaard era, truly make or break.

    If Thiago does leave tho, I hope Moyes can get the best out of him. Thiago alone tho will not fix your midfield, and if you guys are going to try and go more for possession than CAs, he's going to need to make a lot of adjustments to the squad.

    Btw, Nani's red card was probably the biggest bullshit call (next to the no call on Muller's body check on Alba in the lead up to Robben's goal against us in the first leg) of CL last season as you were completely outplaying Madrid in that game, I truly felt sorry for you guys. I would have fancied you against Bayern, would have put up a much better fight than we did, that's for sure.

    Yes i think so, it all depends on how badly Thiago's dream is to be a success at Barcelona and specifically at Barcelona, he knows he's good enough its whether he wants to wait that bit longer to do it at Barca or take the plunge and in essence play the risk verses reward card, if he leaves now to United he goes straight into the team and is given his head so to speak, he gets centre stage, basically what he wants at barca but cant currently get, the risk comes with the different style of football and the challenges a new league represents, maybe he sees those risks as more an exciting worthwhile challenge that will improve him as a player and make him a more rounded one, he can then claim to be able to play the barca tika taka style as well the quicker paced premier league style, maybe to him he feels it would improve him as a player to do this and maybe even more of a challenge than to merely succeed in his comfort zone at Barcelona, or of course maybe its more important to do this at Barca therefore hes willing to wait, a question only he can answer, i really don't believe its about money at all i think he genuinely fears losing another 2 or 3 years of his development as a footballer waiting for others to pass on the baton.

    Regards Xavi, thats a possibility he being willing to sacrifice some of his minutes for a player yu see as your clubs future, but thats again where Cescs involvement becomes troublesome, for Thiago at least, he seems to be having to fight so many battles that up until now in the coaches mind at least hes not winning and is this going to change? so far Tito says not, the signing of Fabregas seemed an odd one at the time from the outside, one of the first things people questioned was would this impact Thiago and his development including thiagos people themselves, i think weve had the answer since, if Thiago does leave i feel its as much the result of Fabregas signing as Xavi not slowing down quick enough in my view, i genuinely think if you took fabregas out of the equation Thiago would be that much closer to guaranteed football and less anxious about his future, hed know he was next in line and would likely be willing to wait that bit longer, now Fabregas is around hes not even guaranteed to be first pick after xavi retires, i think thats where the problem is, i think the fabregas signing from day 1 never sat well with Thiago and his farther and they were convinced from the very beginning it would have a negative effect on his career, maybe theres that sense of "see we told you this would happen all along" about it, Mazinho strikes me as someone who may think along those lines.

    As for us, i dont know, Thiago is everything weve been lacking for some time, since Scholes dramatically slowed down weve not had that classy central midfield player who can both run a game and win one in at the same time, someone whos good enough to star from the middle of the park, weve had capable players who do good jobs Carrick does his specific role very well but hes not a Scholes, and we badly need one, Thiago in our side would make a world of difference and thats why so many united fans are desperate for this to happen, id be very confident a Carrick - Thiago combination would be a great success, we havnt done to badly with cleverly in that role and thiago is a monumental upgrade on him, there would probably be an adjusting period of course but id be very surprised if he wasn't a huge success story, hed have to be mismanaged horrendously to fail in my book hes to talented not to succeed.

    Moyes should and will get time, there will always bee the odd few who jump on the bandwagon and you can bet your life after the first loss there will be screams off "wed never have lost that under fergie" thats life, but given time and backing i think he could do very well, he made Everton one of the most respected and hated sides for opposition to play, he had them regularly giving the big teams a hard time especially at home, with teams that just looked so poor on paper because he had no money to spend throughout his tenure, i quietly optimistic if he can achieve what he did at everton on that budget he'll do well with far greater resources at United, but yes it will take time and there will be testing periods where both the club and the fans will have to stand by him, United fans have been spoilt for decades with Ferguson, that was never going to last forever, maybe a bit of reality will do us all good strange as that sounds, im 26 years old and never known anything different than Sir alex ferguson Manchester United manager lol

    And yes that Nani red card was heartbreaking and im still not over it! we had Madrid exactly where we wanted them chasing the game leaving us gaps to break on them rather than vise versa, Mourinhio knew we had him to which makes it doubly frustrating, ill never forget that Turkish refs name thats for sure!

  6. #7941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martindn View Post
    So hes on holiday now, likely agreed personal terms with those interested. So Madrid, Us or Bayern. Personally hoping we are waiting for manager on 1st july.

    Edit : Or is barca renewal still on the cards like rafinha?
    Probably famous last words here but i dont see Madrid in this, apart from the obvious moral obligation and shit storm it would cause (think figox10 given this is a barca youth product with family in the club to) i dont see him ever doing that to barca.

    Bayern i dont get the logic in but worry they are an option, the Guardiola link made it an obvious threat but i still dont see where his guarantee of games comes from at Bayern without major sales or system changes that drops other key figures there.

    Reckon we wont hear anything for at least another week, hes on holiday, we've apparently done all we can by agreeing terms and can do nothing until he meets and tells the club he wants to leave and specifically to join us, thats what everything seems to be waiting on, when and will he do this is the question, United leave for a pre season tour on July10th, youd think and it has been said wed like any deal done before then so he could be apart of it but who knows.

    Still think the likeliest 2 options are him either renewing with Barca or joining United, no other move seems to make much sense.

  7. #7942
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    Bayern? Where did they come from?
    'A football team is like a piano. You need eight men to carry it and three who can play the damn thing.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by loozy View Post
    Bayern? Where did they come from?
    Munich last i looked?

    Was it ever really a surprise your former manager and Thiagos original mentor would be linked like this? at worst its a lazy but obvious newspaper headline, but according to Hunter pep made personal contact with Thiago about a month ago, sounded like a polite enquiry more than anything given Thiagos people supposedly have only agreed a deal with us up till now since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loozy View Post
    Bayern? Where did they come from?
    Was on the phone with pep a month ago, from twitter though so grain of salt and all that. Peps brother is also his agent. Though he met with our representatives too so its not indicative of a move.

    Still think the likeliest 2 options are him either renewing with Barca or joining United, no other move seems to make much sense.
    I mentioned the other two as that is what is making the rounds, there is always extra teams to consider, its likely madrid have never been interested despite what perez says. Agreed though i always thought it was us or barca from the start, and thinking about it logically if he wants playing time he has to leave - unless he gets promises for next season from villanova - who has made it clear he wont do that.

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    Its either us or UTD.

    Thiago respects us too much to go to Madrid and where in the HELL would he play at Bayern?

    I swear if they get Lewa too, that team will be more stacked than Madrid and that's saying something considering they have world beater Kaka sitting on the bench.

    It really is 50/50 honestly from what I have been hearing.

    Not sure what to make of Rafinha's extension, maybe a good sign for us?

  11. #7946
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    Hold up guys, its over hes started tweeting in English now, obviously a give away sign hes joining United:

    https://twitter.com/Thi_Alcantara91

    Watertight logic if you ask me, tweeting in English = playing for English club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeGea Loves Doughnuts View Post
    Yes i think so, it all depends on how badly Thiago's dream is to be a success at Barcelona and specifically at Barcelona, he knows he's good enough its whether he wants to wait that bit longer to do it at Barca or take the plunge and in essence play the risk verses reward card, if he leaves now to United he goes straight into the team and is given his head so to speak, he gets centre stage, basically what he wants at barca but cant currently get, the risk comes with the different style of football and the challenges a new league represents, maybe he sees those risks as more an exciting worthwhile challenge that will improve him as a player and make him a more rounded one, he can then claim to be able to play the barca tika taka style as well the quicker paced premier league style, maybe to him he feels it would improve him as a player to do this and maybe even more of a challenge than to merely succeed in his comfort zone at Barcelona, or of course maybe its more important to do this at Barca therefore hes willing to wait, a question only he can answer, i really don't believe its about money at all i think he genuinely fears losing another 2 or 3 years of his development as a footballer waiting for others to pass on the baton.

    Regards Xavi, thats a possibility he being willing to sacrifice some of his minutes for a player yu see as your clubs future, but thats again where Cescs involvement becomes troublesome, for Thiago at least, he seems to be having to fight so many battles that up until now in the coaches mind at least hes not winning and is this going to change? so far Tito says not, the signing of Fabregas seemed an odd one at the time from the outside, one of the first things people questioned was would this impact Thiago and his development including thiagos people themselves, i think weve had the answer since, if Thiago does leave i feel its as much the result of Fabregas signing as Xavi not slowing down quick enough in my view, i genuinely think if you took fabregas out of the equation Thiago would be that much closer to guaranteed football and less anxious about his future, hed know he was next in line and would likely be willing to wait that bit longer, now Fabregas is around hes not even guaranteed to be first pick after xavi retires, i think thats where the problem is, i think the fabregas signing from day 1 never sat well with Thiago and his farther and they were convinced from the very beginning it would have a negative effect on his career, maybe theres that sense of "see we told you this would happen all along" about it, Mazinho strikes me as someone who may think along those lines.

    As for us, i dont know, Thiago is everything weve been lacking for some time, since Scholes dramatically slowed down weve not had that classy central midfield player who can both run a game and win one in at the same time, someone whos good enough to star from the middle of the park, weve had capable players who do good jobs Carrick does his specific role very well but hes not a Scholes, and we badly need one, Thiago in our side would make a world of difference and thats why so many united fans are desperate for this to happen, id be very confident a Carrick - Thiago combination would be a great success, we havnt done to badly with cleverly in that role and thiago is a monumental upgrade on him, there would probably be an adjusting period of course but id be very surprised if he wasn't a huge success story, hed have to be mismanaged horrendously to fail in my book hes to talented not to succeed.

    Moyes should and will get time, there will always bee the odd few who jump on the bandwagon and you can bet your life after the first loss there will be screams off "wed never have lost that under fergie" thats life, but given time and backing i think he could do very well, he made Everton one of the most respected and hated sides for opposition to play, he had them regularly giving the big teams a hard time especially at home, with teams that just looked so poor on paper because he had no money to spend throughout his tenure, i quietly optimistic if he can achieve what he did at everton on that budget he'll do well with far greater resources at United, but yes it will take time and there will be testing periods where both the club and the fans will have to stand by him, United fans have been spoilt for decades with Ferguson, that was never going to last forever, maybe a bit of reality will do us all good strange as that sounds, im 26 years old and never known anything different than Sir alex ferguson Manchester United manager lol

    And yes that Nani red card was heartbreaking and im still not over it! we had Madrid exactly where we wanted them chasing the game leaving us gaps to break on them rather than vise versa, Mourinhio knew we had him to which makes it doubly frustrating, ill never forget that Turkish refs name thats for sure!
    We got Cesc at that point bc if we had waited any longer, we probably wouldn't have gotten him. Plus, I mean, it's Cesc Fabregas... :cesc:

    Once he get's that goal scoring touch back again, all the haters on here will go bye-bye. Believe it or not he gets a lot of slack on here by some prepubescent trolls, even tho the guy hasn't had a definitive role here since he got here. Yet again, the problem of Xavi's brilliance...

    My only worry with Thiago at UTD is, especially if Moyes sticks to a 4-4-2, he will need to drastically improve his defensive side of his game. That's what was so incredible about Scholes back in the day, he would make that perfect slide tackle to disposes the opposition or interception and either play the perfect ball or hit a screamer a la:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f0lRnnIUI0

    Scholes was so well rounded on both sides of the ball and that's why I am skeptical of how well Thiago would do in a 4-4-2. He's got all of the offensive capabilities necessary but he isn't fond of defending, nor is he that great at it either. If Moyes switches to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, Thiago will do fine. But since you guys are known to run the 4-4-2 almost religiously, Thiago's defensive side to his game will really need to improve.

    Either way, for us I either see Cesc or Thiago having a breakout season for us since they will actually have a goal scoring threat () to pass to and Xavi's signs of slowing down have been pretty apparent. I just REALLY hope Tito figures it out this season bc idk if I can take watching another dismantlement like Bayern did to us last season.

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    If he went to Bayern, he might as well stay in Barca as he won't get much playing time, lest Pep upsets the Bayern higher ups and benches their star player Schweinsteiger.

    *and there are no rumours floating around in Germany about him*
    'A football team is like a piano. You need eight men to carry it and three who can play the damn thing.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_blaugrana View Post
    We got Cesc at that point bc if we had waited any longer, we probably wouldn't have gotten him. Plus, I mean, it's Cesc Fabregas... :cesc:

    Once he get's that goal scoring touch back again, all the haters on here will go bye-bye. Believe it or not he gets a lot of slack on here by some prepubescent trolls, even tho the guy hasn't had a definitive role here since he got here. Yet again, the problem of Xavi's brilliance...

    My only worry with Thiago at UTD is, especially if Moyes sticks to a 4-4-2, he will need to drastically improve his defensive side of his game. That's what was so incredible about Scholes back in the day, he would make that perfect slide tackle to disposes the opposition or interception and either play the perfect ball or hit a screamer a la:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f0lRnnIUI0

    Scholes was so well rounded on both sides of the ball and that's why I am skeptical of how well Thiago would do in a 4-4-2. He's got all of the offensive capabilities necessary but he isn't fond of defending, nor is he that great at it either. If Moyes switches to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, Thiago will do fine. But since you guys are known to run the 4-4-2 almost religiously, Thiago's defensive side to his game will really need to improve.

    Either way, for us I either see Cesc or Thiago having a breakout season for us since they will actually have a goal scoring threat () to pass to and Xavi's signs of slowing down have been pretty apparent. I just REALLY hope Tito figures it out this season bc idk if I can take watching another dismantlement like Bayern did to us last season.

    Yeah Fabregas is a great player but it wasnt as if you needed him as an urgent requirement, and since hes joined as far as im aware hes never fully nailed down a first team spot? hes basically a very expensive be it very good rotation player, fits here and there sometimes covers for Messi sometimes Xavi can play the Iniesta role to, but hes not as of yet a regular, and for the expense and the fact you have the likes of Thiago coming through was it worth it? im not saying it wasnt, im just saying i think Fabregas as much as anything else is a problem for Thiago, another great player who hes behind in the order of playing time, i think the signing made him feel undervalued and continues to, if Cesc wasnt in the way i dont think Thiago would consider leaving, but like you say its Fabregas hes a great player and a barca boy, it was a natural signing in that sense.

    Moyes mostly played 4-2-3-1 at Everton, he used Mirallas and Pienaar in the wider positions but never as wingers, Pienaar is actually best known for his outstanding link up with Baines that allows baines to do the wing duties as such, Piennar tends to drift in and create more centrally a role i can see moyes earmarking for Kagawa in the same area of the pitch especially if Rooney stays, to be honest i find theres very little difference visually on the field between a 4-4-2 and a 4-2-3-1, the only basic difference is the wide players play further up and slightly more central, the central 2 also play a tad deeper, but in essence its the same logic, 2 central midfielders, 2 wider players 1 striker and 1 in the hole, which is basically how we always played under sir alex and how Everton lined up with moyes, i dont think the system will be an issue.

    Your dead right about Scholes, thats why hes such a huge loss, he could do everything and be brilliant at it, i suppose god had to give him something after rendering him Ginger for his entire life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loozy View Post
    If he went to Bayern, he might as well stay in Barca as he won't get much playing time, lest Pep upsets the Bayern higher ups and benches their star player Schweinsteiger.

    *and there are no rumours floating around in Germany about him*
    Thats how i see it to, Good luck getting Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Gustavo, Kroos, Thiago, Gotze, Muller, Ribery, Robben, Mandzukic/Lewandowski in the same team and keeping them all happy, and your right its odd that literally nothing regards Thiago has been mentioned in the german press, which is why i hope at least its merely one of those lazy bound to happen journo links, a bit like what happened with us being linked with Fellaini the moment we hired Moyes.
    Last edited by DeGea Loves Doughnuts; 27th June 2013 at 09:35 PM.

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