Argentina

[La Furia]

1. Salvador Cabañas is a damn good. Good work from Paraguay.

2. Hugo Sanchez. Ali Daei. Sorry Grondona, your idea was not an original one; plenty of countries hire managers without the qualifications just because they are national icons, and it almost always fails. I blame the AFA clowns even more than Maradona.

3. What do Paraguay and Chile have in common? Both are coached by Argentines, and both are going to South Africa in the summer.

[FCB_Titi_LB]

Messi cant put his team in a WC ?

[Cal-FCB]

LISANDRO IS NOT A TARGET MAN (no 9 ) ..
the only number 9's Argentina got is Crespo,Milito,Julio Cruz,Martin Palermo & German Denis (from the known strikers )
the rest are all Aguero /benzema like ..that include Higuain,Lisandro and the rest

So people stop saying that , seriously it was repeated so many times over here (no offense Nebeer )
and Aguero and Tevez are not number 10's as well

To be fair Beast at least Higuain has a bit of height. He might not be Mr Physical up front but he's not a midget like the rest (I only just realised how short Lisandro is!). Agree though they are the main physical strikers Argentina have. Personally I'd start Higuain with the option of Milito and Lisandro off the bench. Either way they need to stop the stupid long balls. I agree with Meta if they at least had some kind of structure you give Messi and co the chance to make stuff happen up front. It's just a total shambles at the moment.

[John Antonio Bilboa]

Argentina have to many quality players diluted not so quality players, its painfully obvious that Maradona has not tactical know how and whats worse is the results are starting to show it.There are some many match winners in the Argentina squad that there is not plausible reason why they should be losing games after dominating position for most of the match. When your main striker is going way out of position just to receive the ball, somethings gotta click in you mind and say hay i need to look at the game and make a tactical change, not just hay we're losing so i'm gonna chuck on as many strikers as possible.

[joby]

Messi cant put his team in a WC ?

I was waiting for someone else to say it. Messi was clueless against Brazil and against Paraguay. For a player so highly rated you will think he will try one or two things our of his arsenal to help his team.
The main core of Barca, namely Xavi and Iniesta, makes average players look good. Messi is not better than Xavi or Iniesta. I am sorry. Everybody saw Xavi's vision during the last Euro.
If someone should be made player of the year it should be either Xavi or Iniesta but I am afraid it has already been decided in some dark rooms. At Barca players like Xavi, Iniesta, and former Barca Eto'o creates room for Messi to shine.

[antonnn]

I was waiting for someone else to say it. Messi was clueless against Brazil and against Paraguay. For a player so highly rated you will think he will try one or two things our of his arsenal to help his team.
The main core of Barca, namely Xavi and Iniesta, makes average players look good. Messi is not better than Xavi or Iniesta. I am sorry. Everybody saw Xavi's vision during the last Euro.
If someone should be made player of the year it should be either Xavi or Iniesta but I am afraid it has already been decided in some dark rooms. At Barca players like Xavi, Iniesta, and former Barca Eto'o creates room for Messi to shine.

That's pretty much exactly what I said to a mate today on MSN. Good shit.

Fair enough the rest of the team are playing like fucking garbage, but even Messi is playing shit, and you cannot absolutely put all the blame on Maradona for that. Messi is called the best player in the world by almost everybody, but for some reason he can't step up for his country and even perform decently? That isn't Maradona's fault, somebody as good as Messi should still play to a decent level even when his teammates aren't, and he hasn't been. But in fairness, he's still 22, Maradona was 26 or so when he was a one man team and won the World Cup for Argentina. Messi will be 27 in 2014 and could finally be good enough to lead Argentina to a World Cup then. How perfect would it be? To win the World Cup for Argentina in your biggest rival's home country?

All that said, I'm not trying to shift blame from Maradona, I'm just saying that Messi should be good enough to at least raise his own game when it's needed like many of the great players in football have. I know he does it for club, you don't have to abuse me and point it out to me, but all the greats did it for both club and country. Hopefully this will come with age.

[Metaphysical]

I was waiting for someone else to say it. Messi was clueless against Brazil and against Paraguay. For a player so highly rated you will think he will try one or two things our of his arsenal to help his team.
The main core of Barca, namely Xavi and Iniesta, makes average players look good. Messi is not better than Xavi or Iniesta. I am sorry. Everybody saw Xavi's vision during the last Euro.
If someone should be made player of the year it should be either Xavi or Iniesta but I am afraid it has already been decided in some dark rooms. At Barca players like Xavi, Iniesta, and former Barca Eto'o creates room for Messi to shine.

this is both right (xavi makes everyone look good, ditto iniesta) and wrong (messi shines no matter who plays, and he is better than xavi and iniesta).

did you watch the argentina games?

clueless against brazil? he was the only player who looked like he had a clue. but because of the dysfunction of the rest of the team he was basically playing brazil by himself (aguero helped a bit when he came on). and of course he was so clueless he put it on a plate for diego milito only for the big bastard to miss like a schmuck.

clueless against paraguay? more like frustrated. whenever he got the ball he'd look up and there was no one to pass to, so he'd pass back or go on a run which eventually got stopped. he also put two glorious free-kicks into the box and neither was attacked for some reason.

they weren't his best games, but his underperformance wasn't because there was no world-class system and midfielders, it's because there was no system or midfielders at all.

he's not a magician. when the entire team around him fails (and make no mistake that's what happened, the only players to come out of these games with ANY credit are him and romero) and the opponents are well-drilled counter-attacking units (as well as the two best teams in south america right now) then what happens is it's basically down to messi to beat the entire team by himself with a dribble. and he had a few good attempts at it but once you've beaten 3, 4, 5 players, the 6th will get you unless you get some help and he got none.

put him in a functioning system and he can lead the team to success (such as in the olympics). all he requires, all any attacker requires, is a stable defence and midfield. even pele and maradona would have struggled if the defence didn't do their job properly.

stop being a hater. you too anton, ya putz.

[John Antonio Bilboa]

Messi and Varon were brilliant everybody else sucked balls( it has to be said) the defenders were off the pace Henzie was especially shocking, and nobody besides Varon seemed to understand Messi.

[Metaphysical]

for all the talk of maradona beating teams by himself, the two teams he did whupp single-handedly were the english and the belgians. and while england and belgium were good, they weren't among the world's best teams in '86.

brazil are probably the second best team in the world right now. and paraguay are an excellently drilled unit (I dunno what their fifa ranking is but I can bet it's not high enough) and the current argentina team are in a woeful state, much worse than the team in '86 which had a clear tactic and unity and confidence.

[antonnn]

Of course he's not a magician, he's the MESSIah, even higher.

It'll be an epic fail if Argentina don't make the WC. The way Argentina have been since the last WC is terrible. Shows that Pekerman was actually a pretty decent manager.

[John Antonio Bilboa]

The rankings are a load of bull.

[Cal-FCB]

Agree with you Meta, Messi was one of the few actually looking to do anything. The fact that he was swamped by 3 players every time he got the ball could have worked perfectly to Argentina's advantage, but as he rarely had support they couldn't exploit the gaps that appeared. As far as it ruining his reputation well I don't see Portugal setting the world alight right now.

[joby]

this is both right (xavi makes everyone look good, ditto iniesta) and wrong (messi shines no matter who plays, and he is better than xavi and iniesta).

did you watch the argentina games?

clueless against brazil? he was the only player who looked like he had a clue. but because of the dysfunction of the rest of the team he was basically playing brazil by himself (aguero helped a bit when he came on). and of course he was so clueless he put it on a plate for diego milito only for the big bastard to miss like a schmuck.

clueless against paraguay? more like frustrated. whenever he got the ball he'd look up and there was no one to pass to, so he'd pass back or go on a run which eventually got stopped. he also put two glorious free-kicks into the box and neither was attacked for some reason.

they weren't his best games, but his underperformance wasn't because there was no world-class system and midfielders, it's because there was no system or midfielders at all.

he's not a magician. when the entire team around him fails (and make no mistake that's what happened, the only players to come out of these games with ANY credit are him and romero) and the opponents are well-drilled counter-attacking units (as well as the two best teams in south america right now) then what happens is it's basically down to messi to beat the entire team by himself with a dribble. and he had a few good attempts at it but once you've beaten 3, 4, 5 players, the 6th will get you unless you get some help and he got none.

put him in a functioning system and he can lead the team to success (such as in the olympics). all he requires, all any attacker requires, is a stable defence and midfield. even pele and maradona would have struggled if the defence didn't do their job properly.

stop being a hater. you too anton, ya putz.

Yes, I watched both games.
And you don't know the meaning of World Best Player.

"and he had a few good attempts at it but once you've beaten 3, 4, 5 players," that is the trouble, World Best Players don't unnecessarily hug the ball. Messi will arrive when he will learn how to release the ball on time.

[antonnn]

"and he had a few good attempts at it but once you've beaten 3, 4, 5 players," that is the trouble, World Best Players don't unnecessarily hug the ball. Messi will arrive when he will learn how to release the ball on time.

Like Iniesta.

[Beast]

I was waiting for someone else to say it. Messi was clueless against Brazil and against Paraguay. For a player so highly rated you will think he will try one or two things our of his arsenal to help his team.
The main core of Barca, namely Xavi and Iniesta, makes average players look good. Messi is not better than Xavi or Iniesta. I am sorry. Everybody saw Xavi's vision during the last Euro.
If someone should be made player of the year it should be either Xavi or Iniesta but I am afraid it has already been decided in some dark rooms. At Barca players like Xavi, Iniesta, and former Barca Eto'o creates room for Messi to shine.

That's pretty much exactly what I said to a mate today on MSN. Good shit.

Fair enough the rest of the team are playing like fucking garbage, but even Messi is playing shit, and you cannot absolutely put all the blame on Maradona for that. Messi is called the best player in the world by almost everybody, but for some reason he can't step up for his country and even perform decently? That isn't Maradona's fault, somebody as good as Messi should still play to a decent level even when his teammates aren't, and he hasn't been. But in fairness, he's still 22, Maradona was 26 or so when he was a one man team and won the World Cup for Argentina. Messi will be 27 in 2014 and could finally be good enough to lead Argentina to a World Cup then. How perfect would it be? To win the World Cup for Argentina in your biggest rival's home country?

All that said, I'm not trying to shift blame from Maradona, I'm just saying that Messi should be good enough to at least raise his own game when it's needed like many of the great players in football have. I know he does it for club, you don't have to abuse me and point it out to me, but all the greats did it for both club and country. Hopefully this will come with age.

Agree with the main theme for both of you

this is both right (xavi makes everyone look good, ditto iniesta) and wrong (messi shines no matter who plays, and he is better than xavi and iniesta).

did you watch the argentina games?

clueless against brazil? he was the only player who looked like he had a clue. but because of the dysfunction of the rest of the team he was basically playing brazil by himself (aguero helped a bit when he came on). and of course he was so clueless he put it on a plate for diego milito only for the big bastard to miss like a schmuck.

clueless against paraguay? more like frustrated. whenever he got the ball he'd look up and there was no one to pass to, so he'd pass back or go on a run which eventually got stopped. he also put two glorious free-kicks into the box and neither was attacked for some reason.

they weren't his best games, but his underperformance wasn't because there was no world-class system and midfielders, it's because there was no system or midfielders at all.

he's not a magician. when the entire team around him fails (and make no mistake that's what happened, the only players to come out of these games with ANY credit are him and romero) and the opponents are well-drilled counter-attacking units (as well as the two best teams in south america right now) then what happens is it's basically down to messi to beat the entire team by himself with a dribble. and he had a few good attempts at it but once you've beaten 3, 4, 5 players, the 6th will get you unless you get some help and he got none.

put him in a functioning system and he can lead the team to success (such as in the olympics). all he requires, all any attacker requires, is a stable defence and midfield. even pele and maradona would have struggled if the defence didn't do their job properly.

stop being a hater. you too anton, ya putz.

load of crap Meta IMO ..

really load of crap

now you say he is not a magician , but with Barca through out the year he is hailed as one some even say better than Maradona ..

He may not be the worst player for Argentina and he try but the form shown with Argentina is the worst u can see from him .
even when Barca was clueless under Frank , Messi managed to raise his game and win games on his own .

He is not required to win games ALL THE TIME,but at least WIN SOME GAMES ..or SCORE GOALS.
something he failed to do .. several times .
Messi is brilliant with Junior levels Argentina but the fact remain he FAILED more than once with Argentina first team and not just with Maradona .

the form he shown on the National level put him below the likes of Maradona,Pele , Cruyff,Zidane and co .
more like the level of Ronaldinho with Brazil (sort off ). Is it a Barca thing for wingers ? maybe i really haven't give it much thought .
one thing for sure Messi Argentina is ALWAYS off colors when it mattered .
Copa America and now the Qualifiers , for someone hailed as Maradona hire he should pull the team on his own .

he have time on his side but so far he hasn't done enough to be in that category , people are not haters but you are blind if you think he is not to blame or haven't disappointed big time with Argentina as i said at least score a goal or 2
some individual run or anything worthy of his fame , but 20 goals in 16 games shows he is so far a local player (Benzema syndrome )
And no Maradona did manage to pull that twice with Argentina 86 & with Napoli

As i said he has time on his side but he better pull it quickly