Willian

Jombi said:

Busi, Raki, Suarez, Messi and Pique are absolutely the core of our team. We rely on all of them being world class. Messi, Pique and Suarez are particularly worrying in the upcoming season. They can not decline. Busi will be interesting.

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So are the 30+ players of every other team...

Navas-Ramos-Marcelo-Modric-Benzema
Neuer-Boateng-Vidal-Ribery-Robben-Lewandowski (30 next month)
Chellini-Benatia-Matuidi-Khedira-Marchisio-Higuain-Mandzukic-Ronaldo
Kompany-Otamendi-Fernandinho-Silva-Aguero

It's the same case for all of the these teams. Barca are at least signing some very promising young players to replace some of the midfield and defensive starters in the future if they work out.

Next year we will need to do the same for the striker and LB position.

Devils said:

So are the 30+ players of every other team...

Navas-Ramos-Marcelo-Modric-Benzema
Neuer-Boateng-Vidal-Ribery-Robben-Lewandowski (30 next month)
Chellini-Benatia-Matuidi-Khedira-Marchisio-Higuain-Mandzukic-Ronaldo
Kompany-Otamendi-Fernandinho-Silva-Aguero

It's the same case for all of the these teams. Barca are at least signing some very promising young players to replace some of the midfield and defensive starters in the future if they work out.

Next year we will need to do the same for the striker and LB position.

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I dont count goalies as declining at a similar rate as other players. They are different. And several of the players you mention play less than half of their team's games. Busi, Raki, Suarez, Messi and Pique play all the time, every game for us. And some of them will decline in the upcoming season. The question is who. If its Messi or Busi, it will be really ugly, so we must hope its Raki and Arthur turn out to be a masterstroke.

Seriously, what is this "starter for NT" bullshit? There are plenty of average players starting for their national teams ahead of more quality players. (Giroud, Fellaini for example. Even Jesus starting ahead of Firmino). That's either because they fit certain tactic better or manager likes them more for whatever reason. This doesn't change the fact that Lacazette > Giroud or Dembele > Fellaini tho.

And also, Thiago was starter and a very important player under Lopetegui. If he hadn't been fired, Thiago would surely start in wc.

Jombi said:

So both Suarez and Iniesta were not physical so thats why they declined? Suarez and Iniesta are very different type of players and I think its obvious that both declined sharply by that age. Great players at 34-35 are so rare its almost non-existent compared to all the players who decline.

Some of those 30+ players we have will decline significantly in the upcoming season. The question is who and if we are prepared for it.

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They don't have to play until the age 34.
Rakitic, I am expecting 2-3 seasons from him
Busquets, the same.
Pique: 3-4 seasons etc.

Suarez: 1 season

About replacements for our key players:
Only Suarez will need a replacement soon, probably next summer.
Messi will play for 2-3-4 more years.
Cou is young.
Rakitic can play for 2-3 years. And even then, we'll have Arthur/Rabiot or maybe even De Jong. We found a replacement already.
2nd midfielder? Maybe already Arthur/Rabiot.
Busquets? 2-3 years. We'll buy a new guy or play De Jong/Arthur/Rabiot/Oriol.
Pique? We'll buy 2-3 Cbs till then.
Rb: young players.
Alba, he'll play for 2-3 more years at least.

You guys make it sound as if we'll need to buy 10 starters in 1 season.
Only big transfers we'll need will be: New Messi and new Suarez.
On other positions, we are already buying younger guys for the future.

Jombi said:

I dont count goalies as declining at a similar rate as other players. They are different. And several of the players you mention play less than half of their team's games. Busi, Raki, Suarez, Messi and Pique play all the time, every game for us. And some of them will decline in the upcoming season. The question is who. If its Messi or Busi, it will be really ugly, so we must hope its Raki and Arthur turn out to be a masterstroke.

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Only the injured ones I mentioned have played less than 30 games. The rest played above 30 and most played over 40 matches. Goalkeepers this day an age don't come cheap, it's absolutely something you have to consider.

Raki and Busi played all the time last season when they were still 29 and will now surely play less with Arthur and possibly Rabiot added. Alena too once he returns from injury.

So really the only 30+ players we played all the time last season were Messi, Suarez and Pique. And Pique will probably get more rest now that Lenglet is here.

Barcelona have done well this transfer window if the two remaining players are signed.

The striker position is a different beast and with little options in the market available, it's something that the majority if not the entire next season budget will have to be put into.

Devils said:

So are the 30+ players of every other team...

Navas-Ramos-Marcelo-Modric-Benzema
Neuer-Boateng-Vidal-Ribery-Robben-Lewandowski (30 next month)
Chellini-Benatia-Matuidi-Khedira-Marchisio-Higuain-Mandzukic-Ronaldo
Kompany-Otamendi-Fernandinho-Silva-Aguero

It's the same case for all of the these teams. Barca are at least signing some very promising young players to replace some of the midfield and defensive starters in the future if they work out.

Next year we will need to do the same for the striker and LB position.

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Jombi has a point. Also why compare them to Real and other teams, Real maybe lucky in UCL but did horrible in the league because of aging core players like Ronaldo, Marcelo, Modric..etc.

The core team that won us UCLs is much younger than this one. For example, in 2011 starting 11: Dani Alves was 27, Messi was 24, Iniesta was 27, Busquets was 23, Pique was 23, Pedro was 23, VV 29, Masch 27, Villa 29, only Xavi and Abidal above 30 (both at 31 years old).

if Chelsea insist on a ridiculous price we should move for Martial. United desperately don't want to sell him to a PL rival so we could probably get a fair deal allowing for Willian to join United

George_Costanza said:

Jombi has a point. Also why compare them to Real and other teams, Real maybe lucky in UCL but did horrible in the league because of aging core players like Ronaldo, Marcelo, Modric..etc.

The core team that won us UCLs is much younger than this one. For example, in 2011 starting 11: Dani Alves was 27, Messi was 24, Iniesta was 27, Busquets was 23, Pique was 23, Pedro was 23, VV 29, Masch 27, Villa 29, only Xavi and Abidal above 30 (both at 31 years old).

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Because the year before, when they beat us in La Liga and dominated the CL...All those players were still over 30 years old.

BBZ8800 said:

They don't have to play until the age 34.
Rakitic, I am expecting 2-3 seasons from him
Busquets, the same.
Pique: 3-4 seasons etc.

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The question is not whether they will be playing or not, but what their quality will be like. Iniesta and Suarez have been on a very clear declining path for years now IMO. It happened around 30-31. Its perfectly normal. We dont need to buy 10 starters in 1 season but we also need to incorporate younger players who can gradually take over from the declining players who are past 30 instead of dismissing every youngish player as unproven rubbish. Rabiot instead of Busi? The drop in quality is almost laughable. We've lost Iniesta and Neymar, two incredible players. The jury is still out on whether they are going to be properly replaced.

Will the only big transfers be new Messi and new Suarez because Arthur, De Jong and a couple of other young players can take over from Iniesta, Busquets, Raki and Pique? Lets hope so, it will be a huge improvement in our transfer policy if we are able to properly replace these players with four young bargains.

I wonder if we are still interested in Dybala ?

TitoTata said:

I wonder if we are still interested in Dybala ?

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Dybala occupies same spaces as Messi. He didn't even play for Argentina because of that, I highly doubt we will go for him.

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hamoon32 said:

Seriously, what is this "starter for NT" bullshit? There are plenty of average players starting for their national teams ahead of more quality players. (Giroud, Fellaini for example. Even Jesus starting ahead of Firmino). That's either because they fit certain tactic better or manager likes them more for whatever reason. This doesn't change the fact that Lacazette > Giroud or Dembele > Fellaini tho.

And also, Thiago was starter and a very important player under Lopetegui. If he hadn't been fired, Thiago would surely start in wc.

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If you have read my posts, I said that that the more factors you include=the more accurate picture/history you will get.

France wouldn't win a WC with Dembele instead of Giroud.
Lacazette? a 175 cm tall guy?
All 4 top teams at WC played with 3 attackers and with a tall, strong Cf: Giroud 193cm, Mandzukic 190, Lukaku 190, Kane 188.
Real won 4 Cls in 5 years with the same recipe: Benzema 185.
All teams played 1 tall/strong targetman and 2 pacey wingers in attack.

That recipe is obviously a way to go in a current era of football.
This is why Dembele didn't play since France lacked a targetman/physical presence in the box/someone to whom you can cross and who can hold the ball.
Again, this is why Lacazzete can't play over Giroud.

About Jesus, I agree, I don't like him either.
But: 1 coach can be wrong.
2 coaches: less likely
3-4-5 coaches: the more coaches, different clubs, longer time period a player is a starter=there is a reason behind it.

Try to find a player who was benched under 3-4 different top coaches, but who turned into a world class player.

My point about NT starters and being a starter in a club is that lately our forum started to use some "it can't be explained in stats/words/blah blah" things.
People started to put faith in 10s of guys who are benchwarmers with an alibi: a coach is dumb.
Semedo was described as a potential best RB in the world when he came here.
Today he is a benchwarmer at Barca and what, 3rd-4th pick at Portugal NT? I know, EV is dumb, but how does their NT coach doesn't see that "insane" potential in Semedo?
Demebele, a benchwarmer in a club and NT.

But then, what annoys me: people want to buy new benchwarmers like Martial, Malcom, Lemar and similar.
People want a team filled with players who are not good for other top clubs or for NT teams, with the excuse: but they are young and have potential...

Yet, players like Rakitic and Willian, who play under every coach/club/Nt are classed as: not good enough and should be replaced with younger guys "who have potential".
An absolute madness.

When teammates vote for Willian as a player of a season: players don't understand football.
When Willian plays for Brazil and Chelsea: their coaches are idiots and like workhorses.
When Dembele doesn't play anywhere as a starter: he is young and a coach is dumb.

You guys have decided in your heads whether a player is good or bad, and a fact how much he played in the past under different coaches don't mean too much.
Yet, in majority of cases, best players are never benched by any coach.

George_Costanza said:

How so? Jamdav said, "Would rather pay 45m for a 'promising' player like Muniain to replace Iniesta than 100m on Coutinho".

I never said that. Go check my original quote he posted in Coutinho's thread. I was talking about various CMs and AMs, nothing about Coutinho. The fact that I have never mentioned Munian before and after while I always maintained Coutinho is Neymar's replacement, not Iniesta, doesn't help his case.

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You said something very similar.

Andrew says:

Andrew M said:

Buying Muniain for 45 mill would be a huge mistake, bro

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to which you reply:

George_Costanza said:

Buying Coutinho for 150m (or anything above 100m) would be a bigger mistake

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You basically say it'd be worse to pay anything above 100m for Coutinho than 45m for Munian. Or, differently put, it's better to buy Munian for 45 than 100 for Coutinho.

You yourself draw a line between Coutinho and Munian in your response.

Now I've probably overdone it.

Again Sky reporting that they rejected our bid yet nothing from Catalan sources nor Chelsea's mouthpieces.

Yeah someone is feeding Sky some bullshit I bet.