20 - Sergi Roberto

Sergi should be the one who will replace Busi. Roberto Arthur and Coutinho could become a world class midfield

mehh..no, i would never take Busquets out of his position. Rotate sometimes yes, sub if we desperately need other things in the midflied yes but you must crazy if you think Roberto would be better tha Busquets. Busquets is simply the best in his position and task. Super inteligente players like Busquets don't need to be fast or have pace, he can antecipate every move of opponents, finds line of pass that no one does and using his body he can pass 1 or 2 players with just a simply move. Don't mistake lack of pace or agressiveness for lack of quality. For all this, Busquets is way superior than Roberto. And i love Roberto, always said he should play in the midfield but he looks more like a B2B than a DM. He has characteristics like verticality, drible than we don't have in any other midfielder and thus he is kind of wasted as a DM.

Ascom said:

mehh..no, i would never take Busquets out of his position. Rotate sometimes yes, sub if we desperately need other things in the midflied yes but you must crazy if you think Roberto would be better tha Busquets. Busquets is simply the best in his position and task. Super inteligente players like Busquets don't need to be fast or have pace, he can antecipate every move of opponents, finds line of pass that no one does and using his body he can pass 1 or 2 players with just a simply move. Don't mistake lack of pace or agressiveness for lack of quality. For all this, Busquets is way superior than Roberto. And i love Roberto, always said he should play in the midfield but he looks more like a B2B than a DM. He has characteristics like verticality, drible than we don't have in any other midfielder and thus he is kind of wasted as a DM.

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At least we can try to give some matches to Roberto as a Cdm.

But, something weird happened in these two friendlies in the first half:
1. we played more beautiful than the whole last season
2. we played faster than the whole last season
3. we played more direct than the whole last season
4. we had more counters than the whole last season
5. 10 field players were involved in rondos and crazy passing fluent actions

There are few answers:
1. Tottenham and Roma were horrible
2. Busi is slowing down out team
3. Rakitic is slowing down our team
4. Messi is slowing down our team and forcing Messipendencia
5. Luis is killing and slowing down our actions

It is hard to tell WHICH points of these above are true, but some probably are.

I mean, just imagine yesterday's match with a full lineup:
Busi would get the ball.
He would slow down, look left and right.
He would pass to Raki.
He would slow down, pass the ball back to Busi.
Busi would look left and right and pass to a Alba.
Alba would pass to Coutinho.
Coutinho would pass to Busi.
He would slow down and wait a few seconds.
The opponent would park a bus with 10 players till then. We would be still passing the ball at the centre of the pitch.
Then Messi would drop to a Cm position and take the ball.
Then he would dribble for 10 seconds and lose the ball or he would play a long pass to Alba.
Alba would pass the ball back to a LCM.
He would pass to Busi.
Busi would look for Messi at the edge of a box.

Anyone can predict what we will do with our starters:
We will play slow.
We will play safe.
We will play from left to right all the time, over and over.
Messi will drop deep, and repeat that 100s of times until we would score.

With Messi on a field, Malcom can't run, dribble and take responsibility.
He can't shoot, he needs to pass to Messi every time.
Semedo can't dribble and shoot, he needs to pass to Messi.
Rafinha can't dribble and shoot at the edge of a box, he needs to pass the ball back to Messi.
Roberto can fly from box to box, we have slow Raki and Busi etc.
A team can't play TikiTaka and rondos. Messi will take the ball deep and do whatever he wants.

I am NOT saying that Messi shouldn't play, but imo, a team is in a comfort zone and they have their mechanisms which they haven't changed for 5 or 10 years.
We know what our players will do, and all the opponents lately know what they will do.
When we lost to Roma, two of my friends (not Barca's fans) told me later: we watched the 2nd leg together and laughed during the whole match and commented:
= Barca has the ball, a player NEEDS to pass the ball to Messi.
2 seconds later: and there it is, a ball is passed to Messi. He passes to someone, 10 seconds later: a player will now need to play a 1-2 at the edge of a box with Messi, but they will lose the ball.
And there it is: 2 seconds later: 1-2 with Messi and the ball is lost.
2 minutes later, we have the ball around the box, and they said: NO ONE will shoot, they are allowed only to pass to Messi, only he can shoot.
10 seconds later: Messi gets the ball, he shoots and gets blocked by 3 defenders, lol.

Every neutral semi smart football fan can predict every single move of our team.
And all big teams know that also.

This is why I would like to see some fresh blood, some new actions and new ideas.
Roberto is offering new things as a Cdm.
Semedo is offering more pace as a RB.
Malcom/Dembele can offer more counters in a combination with Cdm Roberto and Rb Semedo.
Even Rafinha looked like Usain Bolt compared to Iniesta and Rakitic.

I also think that teams are parking buses because we are forcing them to park the bus with our slow transition.
And then, when they park the bus, we play only through the middle and pass all the balls to Messi, and we are sterile and easy to stop.

So, I am hoping for more rotations this season, and as i have said, for more matches with Messi, Busi, Luis and even Rakitic on the bench.
Just to "test" how fast and how efficient is a team without these older guys who are each slowing down the game in their own way.

BBZ8800 said:

Even though Arthur is a controller, yesterday it seemed that Roberto is our brain, our captain and that all actions are going through him.
He was running like crazy, playing like some b2b cdm.
No offense to Busi, but there is so much more pace and movement when Roberto is a Cdm.
Maybe Busi and "slow down" style from 2009 are a part of our problem?
With Busi, we play in a predictable way.
With Roberto, we look like faster, more combative Barca.
Not to mention how Roberto is better against fast counters than slow Busi.

Without Busi, Messi, Suarez and older heavyweights, our team was flying all over the pitch.
10 players played rondos and fast actions.
Busi will slow us down.
All balls will need to be be passed to Messi.
Luis will ruin every first touch action.

This is not a negative post.
I have actually more hopes in our team post Messi and Busi, after these friendlies.
They are bringing so much to our team, but to some extent, they are slowing down our play and when Messi is on the field, other players are less free to do whatever they want in attack.

I am actually looking forward to more matches this season when we will play without 2 out of Busquets, Messi, Suarez on a field.

I am open to see this faster team with fast Rb Semedo, Cdm Roberto, Malcom, Dembele etc.
Way more pace and direct, efficient football.

Maybe there is something about Real's pace and more directness in midfield in the last 5 years compared to: slow down the play whenever possible and wait until the opponent parks the bus?

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Well I agree partly. Team is playing great with Rafinha, Roberto and Arthur while Semedo brings pace and energy on the right flank. But I'm not sure players like Messi and Busquets will inevitably break the rhythm. It all relies on Valverde. The previous seasons, Messi went as low as DM on the pitch because the team couldn't bring the ball high enough without him, mainly because the team missed players who can break pressure and play forward (only 33 yo Iniesta could do that). Now that we have a system and players who play forward, if you tell Messi to stay high in opponent's last 20-30 meters, I think Barça could become deadly. But it's important to give responsibility to the midfielders so Messi has to let them do their work by playing higher on the pitch. And it's coach's job to explain that to him. Because that way both Barça and Messi will be stronger.

Now what do we do with Busquets ? I'm sure that he still is the best possible DM for a team playing possession football in a 433. It's true that he's less mobile than Sergi but the problem last year was that we had 2 stationary midfielders in Busquets and Rakitic. One less mobile midfielder out of 3 is ok imo, 2 is too much. We should try 433 with Busquets, I'm convinced he's the best in the world at his position. But if the team plays better with Sergi (unlikely imo), then we'll have to make changes.

for me this formation is acceptable

.........................Mats
Semedo...Lenglet.....Umtiti.....Alba
.........................Busi................
...............Coutinho.......Roberto.........
....Malcolm......Messi........Dembele

Teams won't know what hit them when we are on the counter

YodaMaster said:

Well I agree partly. Team is playing great with Rafinha, Roberto and Arthur while Semedo brings pace and energy on the right flank. But I'm not sure players like Messi and Busquets will inevitably break the rhythm. It all relies on Valverde. The previous seasons, Messi went as low as DM on the pitch because the team couldn't bring the ball high enough without him, mainly because the team missed players who can break pressure and play forward (only 33 yo Iniesta could do that). Now that we have a system and players who play forward, if you tell Messi to stay high in opponent's last 20-30 meters, I think Barça could become deadly. But it's important to give responsibility to the midfielders so Messi has to let them do their work by playing higher on the pitch. And it's coach's job to explain that to him. Because that way both Barça and Messi will be stronger.

Now what do we do with Busquets ? I'm sure that he still is the best possible DM for a team playing possession football in a 433. It's true that he's less mobile than Sergi but the problem last year was that we had 2 stationary midfielders in Busquets and Rakitic. One less mobile midfielder out of 3 is ok imo, 2 is too much. We should try 433 with Busquets, I'm convinced he's the best in the world at his position. But if the team plays better with Sergi (unlikely imo), then we'll have to make changes.

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I am not emotionally connected with any player.
So, for me: if a team plays better without you on the pitch, you will get benched.

So, I personally don't care about the question: what we will do with Busi/insert random player?

Also, you are saying that he is the best for possession football.
This is 2018. Is a good old, slow possession football still the way to go?
And please, don't reply: that is our style.

In these 2 matches we played without Busi and with less possession.
Yet, we played more beautiful than the whole last year, faster and more efficient.

So, for me:
1. what we will do with someone? I don't care. Bench him.
2. will we be able to play Barca's football? well, we still played Barca's football yesterday, without Messi, Iniesta, Busi, Rakitic, Suarez. In fact, even better/faster version of Barca's football.

I know that this is just a friendly, but let's test it in more matches.

Would never say BBZ will be the one starting Roberto to midfield campaign. I'd love to see Roberto with Busq on the pitch. Something like Coutinho Busq Roberto or Arthur Busq Roberto.

Joan Laporta said:

Would never say BBZ would be the one starting Roberto to midfield campaign. I'd love to see Roberto with Busq on the pitch. Something like Coutinho Busq Roberto or Arthur Busq Roberto.

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I don't like him as a Cm, as other guys.
Even 2-3 years ago, you can check his thread, there was a lot of posts: he should never again play as a CM.

I like him as a mobile, fast, Cdm of a decent height and physical strength, who is brave, aggressive, direct, good with the ball and dribbles, ok in defense.
For a Cm, he is too "b2b" and all over the place for my taste.
But, still, I would rather see him as a Cm than: Rb Roberto, Cdm Busi, Cms Arthur and Cou and Messi-Suarez-someone in attack. That is the same as last season.

I would just like to see more matches with faster players and Roberto as a Cdm.
When Busi is a Cdm, we already have one slow player.
If you add Rakitic, we are in problems.
If you add Arthur (he is slow for me also), problems again against big teams.
If we play Busi-Arthur-Rakitic, 3 slow guys, a horror again.

If you put Roberto as a Cdm you have one faster, more mobile and aggressive guy.
With a faster Cdm, you can survive with one slower Cm like Raki or Arthur.
Cou can be the attacking Cm then.

I liked the pace, energy and movement of our players in the first 2 matches without these core players and I would like to see more of that.
Cdm Roberto added a new spark in midfield.
Rb Semedo added a new spark suddenly (maybe it is because he is not forced to look for Messi and Dembele all the time and now he is free to run, dribble and even shoot, which he can't do when he needs to pass to Messi all the time)
Artur added something
Malcolm added some magic and courage.
Rafinha added something different.

New guys offered more pace, more movement, more motivation (it seems) and some different actions except the same old for 10 years.

This cat is surely one of the GOAT if not the GOAT utility player.

Yeah he was spectacular in the the CDM position, should play him there more next season.

It should depends on the style of our opponent teams.

If the opponent keep sitting back waiting for counter, I agree with BBZ. We should play Roberto instead of Busquet OR Rakitic.

But If the opponent play high pressing game. Busquet must be on the pitch.

Busquet is also already 30 and we will need to move on from his style of play eventually. I don't think we would find someone like him anytime soon.

So IMO, XXX (hope to be Arthur) - Roberto - Cou for team sitting back wait for counter.

XXX (hope to be Artur) - Busquet - Cou for team1 playing high pressing game

BBZ8800 said:

I am not emotionally connected with any player.
So, for me: if a team plays better without you on the pitch, you will get benched.

So, I personally don't care about the question: what we will do with Busi/insert random player?

Also, you are saying that he is the best for possession football.
This is 2018. Is a good old, slow possession football still the way to go?
And please, don't reply: that is our style.

In these 2 matches we played without Busi and with less possession.
Yet, we played more beautiful than the whole last year, faster and more efficient.

So, for me:
1. what we will do with someone? I don't care. Bench him.
2. will we be able to play Barca's football? well, we still played Barca's football yesterday, without Messi, Iniesta, Busi, Rakitic, Suarez. In fact, even better/faster version of Barca's football.

I know that this is just a friendly, but let's test it in more matches.

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Not emotionally connected either. I'm even one of those guys who thinks that sometimes you need to sell an undisputed starter and bring on new blood in order to stay competitive.

What I meant actually is that if the team plays better with Roberto as DM instead of Busquets, then Roberto should be the starter.
However, I doubt Roberto is a better DM than Busquets. Maybe he's more pacy and energetic than Busquets but that's all he's got on him. Busquets is a better dribbler, passer, defender, he resists pressure like no other midfielder atm + he has perfect defensive positioning in a possession team.

Btw against Roma in the first half, Barça had +70% possession while playing in opponent's half most of the time. Busquets is an absolute monster in those condition. That's why I'm saying we'll see once Busquets gets back to the team. You're sleeping on him big time it seems.

Edit: 75% possession actually.

BBZ8800 said:

I don't like him as a Cm, as other guys.
Even 2-3 years ago, you can check his thread, there was a lot of posts: he should never again play as a CM.

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Agree with that. Roberto was a horrible CM few years ago. We can still try him at that spot again one day though.

He may never have a permanent position, but we are now seeing him rise up to be the de facto captain of this team.

gasgas said:

for me this formation is acceptable

.........................Mats
Semedo...Lenglet.....Umtiti.....Alba
.........................Busi................
...............Coutinho.......Roberto.........
....Malcolm......Messi........Dembele

Teams won't know what hit them when we are on the counter

Click to expand...

Yes but that attack, dont know about malcolm, but dembele is awful at finishing his chances, and if malcolm is similar, its all on messi again, and in that formation, messi needs to move more, no use of static messi vs hard defensive team in CL


Edit: that midfield its to attacking for my taste, top teams will expose that, and again team will fail in CL, rakitic-busi- coutinho is okay, more balanced, and that guy arthur would jump from the bench and rotate with rakitic

vlad said:

Yes but that attack, dont know about malcolm, but dembele is awful at finishing his chances, and if malcolm is similar, its all on messi again, and in that formation, messi needs to move more, no use of static messi vs hard defensive team in CL

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it's not as if Suarez has been scoring for fun in UCL.

dembele is not awful at finishing chancea.

he hardly ever gets chances at goal since he is tasked wirh creation.
how often does he shoot on goal?

ask him to go for goal and then we can get a clear picture

I intended to reply to BBZ's post regarding Roberto as a CDM, but gave up. Will try to address some issues here.


1) Prime Busquets is a joyful player able to fulfill both attacking and defensive duties. Most teams never have such a luxury. But if a team has 2 different types, the destroyer and the attacker vaguely speaking, double pivot is a useful way to fit both in the team. However, Barcelona has to take that path not due to the midfield, but the attack trying to fit both Messi and Suarez in the same lineup. The former not wanting to play wide, later not being able to. That said, I expect we’ll see quite a few matches in 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 formation build around double pivot.

Two defensive midfielders provide numerous advantages. For instance, space will usually be better covered. When one bombs forward, other stays deep protecting the defense allowing defenders maintain positions. For teams like Barca which are vulnerable to counters, it helps. Another advantage has to do with pivots. One can cover for the flaws of the other. Matić-Cesc partnership for instance

I’ll finish by naming standard duties double-pivots have: protect the ground between defense and attacking lines, distribution, stopping counters, preventing play between the lines by reducing free space to roam in…


2) There are various double pivot combinations managers have used. Starting with the classical duo: a destroyer paired with a creator. Mascherano-Xabi partnership for example. Mascherano was protecting defense, tackling and passing it simple thus allowing Xabi to distribute long balls to the flanks and progress with the ball (not saying he didn’t defend or tackle, but less). Interesting one consisted of Fernandinho and Yaya. Both being somewhere in-between. I’d say our du0, Busquets-Rakitić, resembles the later.

Busquets has changed, now he’s more of a playmaker than he ever was. But, he’s lost some of his defensive attributes. Things BBZ moans about. Pace, strength, kilometers, aggressiveness. Don’t eat me alive for this, Busquets and Rakitić have become similar.

When young Busquets played alongside Xabi Alonso, he was closer to a clear destructor. That’s why it worked. Imo.

3) The point I’m aiming at... I’d like to see Busquets paired with Roberto in a double pivot. Same goes for Roberto-Rakitić pairing. Fear Rakitić-Busquets might not be the best choice. Defensively, they’re not fast nor aggressive enough. Roberto acting as a destructor.

A lot would depend on Busquets’/Rakitić’s ability to distribute the ball, but I feel it might work well. Would be interesting to see, nonetheless.