20 - Sergi Roberto

BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] I agree

But still, I don't remember when was the last time when a player who is extremely shy both on and off the field made it at the highest stage.

For example, let's say that we have two variables:
-- off the field
-- and on the field

We will get 4 options when we mix those two:
1. shy off the field, shy on the field
2. shy off the field, extremely confident on the field and taking responsibility all the time (Xavi, Iniesta, for example)
3. confident off the field, shy on the field (let's say Song at Barca)
4. confident off the field, confident on the field (CR7, Ibra, Neymar, Ronaldinho etc)

Players from example No1 stand no chance (imo) to make it at Barca.
If they have insane footballing skills, but really scared personality (on and off the field), they will make it at Sociedad, Malaga, Celta maybe. But not at Barca

For Barca's level, you just have to be confident on the field.
Xavi and Iniesta aren't too cocky guys off the field (let's say that Xavi, Iniesta, Roberto and Samper are the same off the field).
The problem is that ON the field, Xavi's and Iniesta's body language, attitude, bravery is way different than Samper's and Roberto's.

I mean, Roberto and Samper are probably awesome guys, and I would like to be friends with them and hang out with them in real life.
But they are not guys to whom I will pass the ball in the 80th minute of a CL final when we are losing 1:0 and we need some reaction soon.
If you'll pass the ball to Roberto in the 80th minute with 0:1 score, he'll just pass to someone else (like: YOU try something, I am scared as fuck).

These guys can be good in smaller teams, or at Barca in smaller matches (with less pressure) or from time to time in bigger matches.
But on larger samples, these scared guys will let you down.

One more time, this is just my personal opinion: Roberto and Samper are 2 of the most scared guys I have seen in Barca in the last 10-20 years.
Based on their body language, attitude etc.
Cillessen seems that he will be quite similar to those two.

So, about your post, I agree with a majority, EXCEPT that I would add: yes, it is about how you control your personality, EXCEPT if your personality is in extremes either in a good or bad way (too cocky or too shy/lacking confidence).
If you are too shy naturally, then imo, there is just no way to control your personality in any way and turning into a good enough performer for the highest level.

With players who's mental skills are somewhere in the middle of that scale (from 1 to 100 where 1 is too shy and 100 is too cocky), it is up to them to control their personality and to get the best out of their footballing and mental skills.
But again, if you are too shy, you don't stand a chance.
It is the same as if you are trying to be a footballer but you can't pass the ball at all.
Well, you are dead then.
Your footballing skills in this case won't let you to turn into a world class footballer.

The same is with extreme psychological "bugs" who will stop you reaching the heights.
 
Last edited:
G

gasgas

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION] I agree

But still, I don't remember when was the last time when a player who is extremely shy both on and off the field made it at the highest stage.

For example, let's say that we have two variables:
-- off the field
-- and on the field

We will get 4 options when we mix those two:
1. shy off the field, shy on the field
2. shy off the field, extremely confident on the field and taking responsibility all the time (Xavi, Iniesta, for example)
3. confident off the field, shy on the field (let's say Song at Barca)
4. confident off the field, confident on the field (CR7, Ibra, Neymar, Ronaldinho etc)

Players from example No1 stand no chance (imo) to make it at Barca.
If they have insane footballing skills, but really scared personality (on and off the field), they will make it at Sociedad, Malaga, Celta maybe. But not at Barca

For Barca's level, you just have to be confident on the field.
Xavi and Iniesta aren't too cocky guys off the field (let's say that Xavi, Iniesta, Roberto and Samper are the same off the field).
The problem is that ON the field, Xavi's and Iniesta's body language, attitude, bravery is way different than Samper's and Roberto's.

I mean, Roberto and Samper are probably awesome guys, and I would like to be friends with them and hang out with them in real life.
But they are not guys to whom I will pass the ball in the 80th minute of a CL final when we are losing 1:0 and we need some reaction soon.
If you'll pass the ball to Roberto in the 80th minute with 0:1 score, he'll just pass to someone else (like: YOU try something, I am scared as fuck).

These guys can be good in smaller teams, or at Barca in smaller matches (with less pressure) or from time to time in bigger matches.
But on larger samples, these scared guys will let you down.

One more time, this is just my personal opinion: Roberto and Samper are 2 of the most scared guys I have seen in Barca in the last 10-20 years.
Based on their body language, attitude etc.
Cillessen seems that he will be quite similar to those two.

So, about your post, I agree with a majority, EXCEPT that I would add: yes, it is about how you control your personality, EXCEPT if your personality is in extremes either in a good or bad way (too cocky or too shy/lacking confidence).
If you are too shy naturally, then imo, there is just no way to control your personality in any way and turning into a good enough performer for the highest level.

With players who's mental skills are somewhere in the middle of that scale (from 1 to 100 where 1 is too shy and 100 is too cocky), it is up to them to control their personality and to get the best out of their footballing and mental skills.
But again, if you are too shy, you don't stand a chance.
It is the same as if you are trying to be a footballer but you can't pass the ball at all.
Well, you are dead then.
Your footballing skills in this case won't let you to turn into a world class footballer.

The same is with extreme psychological "bugs" who will stop you reaching the heights.
Click to expand...

:rofl1:
:rofl1:
:rofl1:
BBZ8800 said:
I had high hopes in Samper without watching him too much. That was like 5-6 years ago.
I believed in Xavi's words and a hype around him.
Then I have seen him actually play in youth teams, his body language, crying how he can't play for Barca B during a relegation battle because it was too stressful and I have seen enough about him.
Regardless of his actual footballing skills.

Alena has "balls" and courage. He dribbles a lot, he takes the responsibility, he is not hiding.
Even when he plays or when he celebrates a goal, he is somewhat cocky.
That's a positive virtue and a needed skill for a high level footballer (unless you go into extremes with cockiness like Cr7, Deulofeu, Pogba, Halilovic).
But again, that doesn't mean that he will make it here.
But he at least has a chance to make it. Samper and Roberto will never be better than a rotation-level.

For example, this is my estimation of our team, who has a high level of courage (as a person), who is normal and who is low:
(This is imo some mix of courage, self confidence, cockiness, being a lion heart like Puyol, being a leader in key moments, leading a team, influencing teammates, fighting with opponents and referees if needed etc)
Very high 5/5: Neymar, Halilovic, Deulofeu, Suarez, Pique, Dani Alves, Valdes, Puyol, Alba
High 4/5: Messi (4 and not 5/5 only because he is not too cocky as a person. He is a somewhat quiet guy. But still brave more than enough whenever needed), Mascherano, Iniesta, Xavi, Arda, Rakitic
Normal 3/5: Busi, Umtiti
Low 1/5: Roberto, Samper, Bartra, probably Cillessen

Not decided yet, we will need to see more of them in tough times when we can estimate their true mental strength: Denis, Gomes, Mats, Rafinha, Paco

So, imo, anything with a level 3 to 5 is good enough in a combination with a world class footballing skills.
But for top leadership players, when was the last time when our leader was not somewhat cocky and insanely brave? (Or any top player in the world?)
Ronaldinho, brave, a leader, somewhat cocky
Rivaldo, brave, a leader, cocky
R9, the same
Stoichkov, the same
Messi, very brave, not cocky
Neymar, slightly too cocky

Or RM's legends like Zidane, Figo, CR7. All of them have a high level of cockiness, self confidence, bravery.

** Regardless of Roberto, I have read a few days ago one article about Halilovic and a guy who was writing the article said that today more or less all players in top clubs have almost equal skills (to some extent), and the only thing which will turn a player into a world class or a meh-mode is his mental strength and personality.

If two players have somewhat similar footballing skills, the one with better mental strength will turn into a better play on long terms.
Only if you are way, way better than other players, you can "survive" with a slightly weaker mental strength or not too brave personality.
Halilovic has a courage, but he lacks in some other mental skills (IQ, he won't train and run too much, he thinks that he is a star of every team etc)

Look, footballers are showmen to some extent.
Samper or Roberto wouldn't have problems in real life if they were working on some regular job, like all of us.
You don't have to be too cocky or brave on majority of normal jobs. That is not a required skill in a normal life, more or less.

But for example, to be a singer in a rock band and playing infront of 100 000 people, you can't be anxious, scared and similar.
You need to have balls and courage to entertain people and to make them sing.
Or to be a top actor, either in Hollywood or in a theatre...

Cr7 and Neymar have "good" DNA in that sense.
They have very, very high bravery, cockiness, not being scared etc.

Just compare Neymar (even though I don't like him for other reasons) and how he tries to do something, how he fights with opponents, how cocky is he when he celebrates.
And compare his bravery/courage with Samper or Roberto.

Again, imo, 99% of us (football fans) are giving too much importance to pure technical/footballing skills of a player.
While they are probably only 50% of things needed for a player to make it at the highest level of sport/entertainment.
Click to expand...
I agree about everything except that

It takes a lot of cockiness to dribble infront of your own box, or to do roulettes and drags while on the edge of the box and tightly marked

it takes cockiness, a lot of it, to do a dive that the whole world of football still talk about 8 years later

:lol:

So Busquets is in the same group as Neymar, Suarez for me


BBZ8800 said:
I had high hopes in Samper without watching him too much. That was like 5-6 years ago.
I believed in Xavi's words and a hype around him.
Then I have seen him actually play in youth teams, his body language, crying how he can't play for Barca B during a relegation battle because it was too stressful and I have seen enough about him.
Regardless of his actual footballing skills.

Alena has "balls" and courage. He dribbles a lot, he takes the responsibility, he is not hiding.
Even when he plays or when he celebrates a goal, he is somewhat cocky.
That's a positive virtue and a needed skill for a high level footballer (unless you go into extremes with cockiness like Cr7, Deulofeu, Pogba, Halilovic).
But again, that doesn't mean that he will make it here.
But he at least has a chance to make it. Samper and Roberto will never be better than a rotation-level.

For example, this is my estimation of our team, who has a high level of courage (as a person), who is normal and who is low:
(This is imo some mix of courage, self confidence, cockiness, being a lion heart like Puyol, being a leader in key moments, leading a team, influencing teammates, fighting with opponents and referees if needed etc)
Very high 5/5: Neymar, Halilovic, Deulofeu, Suarez, Pique, Dani Alves, Valdes, Puyol, Alba
High 4/5: Messi (4 and not 5/5 only because he is not too cocky as a person. He is a somewhat quiet guy. But still brave more than enough whenever needed), Mascherano, Iniesta, Xavi, Arda, Rakitic
Normal 3/5: Busi, Umtiti
Low 1/5: Roberto, Samper, Bartra, probably Cillessen

Not decided yet, we will need to see more of them in tough times when we can estimate their true mental strength: Denis, Gomes, Mats, Rafinha, Paco

So, imo, anything with a level 3 to 5 is good enough in a combination with a world class footballing skills.
But for top leadership players, when was the last time when our leader was not somewhat cocky and insanely brave? (Or any top player in the world?)
Ronaldinho, brave, a leader, somewhat cocky
Rivaldo, brave, a leader, cocky
R9, the same
Stoichkov, the same
Messi, very brave, not cocky
Neymar, slightly too cocky

Or RM's legends like Zidane, Figo, CR7. All of them have a high level of cockiness, self confidence, bravery.

** Regardless of Roberto, I have read a few days ago one article about Halilovic and a guy who was writing the article said that today more or less all players in top clubs have almost equal skills (to some extent), and the only thing which will turn a player into a world class or a meh-mode is his mental strength and personality.

If two players have somewhat similar footballing skills, the one with better mental strength will turn into a better play on long terms.
Only if you are way, way better than other players, you can "survive" with a slightly weaker mental strength or not too brave personality.
Halilovic has a courage, but he lacks in some other mental skills (IQ, he won't train and run too much, he thinks that he is a star of every team etc)

Look, footballers are showmen to some extent.
Samper or Roberto wouldn't have problems in real life if they were working on some regular job, like all of us.
You don't have to be too cocky or brave on majority of normal jobs. That is not a required skill in a normal life, more or less.

But for example, to be a singer in a rock band and playing infront of 100 000 people, you can't be anxious, scared and similar.
You need to have balls and courage to entertain people and to make them sing.
Or to be a top actor, either in Hollywood or in a theatre...

Cr7 and Neymar have "good" DNA in that sense.
They have very, very high bravery, cockiness, not being scared etc.

Just compare Neymar (even though I don't like him for other reasons) and how he tries to do something, how he fights with opponents, how cocky is he when he celebrates.
And compare his bravery/courage with Samper or Roberto.

Again, imo, 99% of us (football fans) are giving too much importance to pure technical/footballing skills of a player.
While they are probably only 50% of things needed for a player to make it at the highest level of sport/entertainment.
Click to expand...
I agree about everything except that

It takes a lot of cockiness to dribble infront of your own box, or to do roulettes and drags while on the edge of the box and tightly marked

it takes cockiness, a lot of it, to do a dive that the whole world of football still talk about 8 years later

:lol:

So Busquets is in the same group as Neymar, Suarez for me

You are right BBZ8800

you can't be a top top player if you have a shy personality

Top players need guts to attempt big things


You don't see players like Neymar Carrasco Robben shy away from trying a dribble. And with the skills they have it happens

Same with RBs, see how Carvajal, Lahm, or Juanfran try different things, runs, dribbles, makes audacious tackles

Samper is too plain for me too
 
Last edited:
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
With players who's mental skills are somewhere in the middle of that scale (from 1 to 100 where 1 is too shy and 100 is too cocky), it is up to them to control their personality and to get the best out of their footballing and mental skills.
But again, if you are too shy, you don't stand a chance.
It is the same as if you are trying to be a footballer but you can't pass the ball at all.
Well, you are dead then.
Your footballing skills in this case won't let you to turn into a world class footballer.

The same is with extreme psychological "bugs" who will stop you reaching the heights.
Click to expand...


If you are extremely shy on the field you never get to develop your ability until you get rid of that shyness. If you are already a player of great ability, imo that means you have already found a way to overcome that shyness.

Ability/skill for me is different than talent. Players of great talent might never become players of great skill if they do not control their personality. Quaresma for example was more talented than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo went on to develop his abilities and become a much better player.

You said things about Samper and Roberto. For me neither has great ability.
 
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