Gini Wijnaldum

FinBarcelonafan said:

How useful is it to have Rakitic run around the pitch for ninety minutes? He is "running" all the time. I mean, jogging. Muller sprints/tackles/fights/looks for open space for the ball. Busi and Rakitic speed is a joke. Everything they do is too slow and low intensity compared to other top players. It might be "fast" for them or their condition but they are slow as ****.

If someone sprints 12km it's way more useful than someone jogging for 12 km. Aimless running for kilometres is worthless.

That's Busi and Rakitic. They are jogging around. Their intensity/speed was/is too slow for modern football.

I could run around football pitch 90minutes and run 12km. Would it be useful? No, because I do it too slow. Everyone would run past me or I would be too slow to react, meaning I am just jogging everywhere.

Busi and Rakitic for you.

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I don't think you get what he said.

2 players running 10km in 90m during a football game, means the are pretty much doing the same work.
You can't claim one is "joging" and the other is "running" because then the couldn't possibly get the same km in the same time frame, except if one of those run and then stood still for a couple of minutes.

JohnN said:

I don't think you get what he said.

2 players running 10km in 90m during a football game, means the are pretty much doing the same work.
You can't claim one is "joging" and the other is "running" because then the couldn't possibly get the same km in the same time frame, except if one of those run and then stood still for a couple of minutes.

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Read my post again. You can't seriously say Raki and Busi running the same kilometres is the same Bayern players do. They do it in much higher speed like I explained. Raki and Busi jogging around the pitch ain't the same thing at all. Bayern were running around Vidal for run, who is maybe our most aggressive midfielder. Just shows how bad our fitness levels were compared to Bayern.

Point is: Raki and Busi do a lot of worthless running. Even if they run, they are not fast enough. It's worthless. They are worthless for top level football. They are always late in every situation because their lack of speed/intensity.

It would be same as me jogging around for 90minutes on pitch because the intensity of the game is way too high for them and me. Kilometres are not equal. The effort is not equal. To run Muellers 11km is WAY harder than Busis 11km. That's what I am saying. Anyway, done with this topic. Bayern is a physical beast and we are past it.

FinBarcelonafan said:

How useful is it to have Rakitic run around the pitch for ninety minutes? He is "running" all the time. I mean, jogging. Muller sprints/tackles/fights/looks for open space for the ball. Busi and Rakitic speed is a joke. Everything they do is too slow and low intensity compared to other top players. It might be "fast" for them or their condition but they are slow as ****.

If someone sprints 12km it's way more useful than someone jogging for 12 km. Aimless running for kilometres is worthless.

That's Busi and Rakitic. They are jogging around. Their intensity/speed was/is too slow for modern football.

I could run around football pitch 90minutes and run 12km. Would it be useful? No, because I do it too slow. Everyone would run past me or I would be too slow to react, meaning I am just jogging everywhere.

Busi and Rakitic for you.

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Okay you are clearly a kid or just not very smart, I'll try to dumb it down for you. Samantha ran very fast with high intensity for 90 minutes, Simona ran slow with low intensity for 90 minutes, how the fuck did they both ran the same distance?

FinBarcelonafan said:

Read my post again. You can't seriously say Raki and Busi running the same kilometres is the same Bayern players do. They do it in much higher speed like I explained. Raki and Busi jogging around the pitch ain't the same thing at all. Bayern were running around Vidal for run, who is maybe our most aggressive midfielder. Just shows how bad our fitness levels were compared to Bayern.

Point is: Raki and Busi do a lot of worthless running. Even if they run, they are not fast enough. It's worthless. They are worthless for top level football. They are always late in every situation because their lack of speed/intensity.

It would be same as me jogging around for 90minutes on pitch because the intensity of the game is way too high for them and me. Kilometres are not equal. The effort is not equal. To run Muellers 11km is WAY harder than Busis 11km. That's what I am saying. Anyway, done with this topic. Bayern is a physical beast and we are past it.

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I am not sure how 2 people covering the same distance over the same time span can have different workrate.
Busi and raki are not explosive, but the are both worhorses. If their outcome is good or not, depends on other factors, not them not trying.

JohnN said:

I am not sure how 2 people covering the same distance over the same time span can have different workrate.
Busi and raki are not explosive, but the are both worhorses. If their outcome is good or not, depends on other factors, not them not trying.

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Of course they can have a different workrate. Lets say they are in the opponents 3rd and defend a counter after a ball loss. Player A walks back, player B sprints back and clears to a corner. Both are in their penalty box area now, covered the same distance, but player B clearly worked harder. Not that hard of a concept. Intensity matters.

clemente said:

Okay you are clearly a kid or just not very smart, I'll try to dumb it down for you. Samantha ran very fast with high intensity for 90 minutes, Simona ran slow with low intensity for 90 minutes, how the fuck did they both ran the same distance?

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I'll defend FinBarcelonaFan:
I get your point and agree with it to some extent.

But in majority of our matches, when we have the ball, our players walk.

So, imo, it is possible something like this:
1. Barca has the ball, Raki-Busi walk and stand for 30 seconds. Messi loses the ball
2. Opponent is having a counter, Busi-Raki need 7 seconds to slowly run into our box.
Pique wins the ball.
3. Busi-Raki slowly run into an attack and then we keep the ball for 60 seconds
Repeat this 50 times per match

When we have the ball, they run slowly into the attack/counter.
When we have the ball, they walk and don'r move off the ball too much.
When we lose the ball, they run back with their own pace.

Someone else, let's say Muller:
1. Runs faster into the counter
2. When Bayern has the ball, he moves more off the ball
3. When they lose the ball, he runs into his box faster

So, imo, it is still possible to run to attack in a different pace - walk while in possession - run back against counter in a different pace - wait until you regain possession. Repeat again for 90 minutes.
AND have similar distance covered numbers.

** McLovin also explained another example while I was typing this on my phone.

Did Busi have the same distance stats as the Bayern midfielders?

JohnN said:

I am not sure how 2 people covering the same distance over the same time span can have different workrate.
Busi and raki are not explosive, but the are both worhorses. If their outcome is good or not, depends on other factors, not them not trying.

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Think of it as the difference between HIIT and a steady jog (same distance and time). The high intensity run involving select bursts of speed and decelerations will be far more far more demanding and strenuous.

They should also rate the average speed of running/walking. BBZ is right this time. Covering field form one end to another, while always being behind the action is a dud statistic that doesn't do justice.

clemente said:

Okay you are clearly a kid or just not very smart, I'll try to dumb it down for you. Samantha ran very fast with high intensity for 90 minutes, Simona ran slow with low intensity for 90 minutes, how the fuck did they both ran the same distance?

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I'm not sure why you're insulting his intelligence when clearly your point doesn't account for differences in accelerations throughout the 90min interval...

First guy = 0 to 100s at 1 m/s throughout the entire journey. 100 meters in 100 seconds.

Second guy = 0 to 50s at 0 m/s, 50s to 100s at 2m/s. 100 meters in 50 seconds. 100 meters in 100 seconds in total.

Same starting and final positions, same time lapsed, and same average velocities - yet you can clearly see there's a difference between the two "work-rates". Snapshots of their instantaneous velocity and acceleration are the key points here. Obviously what happens on a real life football pitch is a lot more complicated than a one dimensional kinematics problem, but you get the point.

Laplacian said:

I'm not sure why you're insulting his intelligence when clearly your point doesn't account for differences in accelerations throughout the 90min interval...

First guy = 0 to 100s at 1 m/s throughout the entire journey. 100 meters in 100 seconds.

Second guy = 0 to 50s at 0 m/s, 50s to 100s at 2m/s. 100 meters in 50 seconds. 100 meters in 100 seconds in total.

Same starting and final positions, same time lapsed, and same average velocities - yet you can clearly see there's a difference between the two "work-rates". Snapshots of their instantaneous velocity and acceleration are the key points here. Obviously what happens on a real life football pitch is a lot more complicated than a one dimensional kinematics problem, but you get the point.

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And again as I said no player just stands static, show me someone literally just standing, players after sprinting always at least walk or jog. It's not possible to have higher workrate and the same distance covered. Those 1-2 extra km covered is a big deal, 11km and 12km covered is a big difference.

Having a constant average run rate doesn't not mean you put in the same amount of work. There is a substantial amount more energy exerted when running at higher speeds as well as more energy in accelerating and decelerating from those speeds. A player who covered the same amount of kms doing shorter higher intensity Bursts would have used substantially more energy than one running at a more consistant lower intensity.
A 15m higher intensity run burns the equivalent of someone doing a 45+ minute jog...

to be clear if you want to go by the high school definition of work ignoring all other factors affecting it then your defition of work may hold true, however you just dont apply a simple equation in isolation for real world problems.

Per Fabrizio Romano, one of the most reliable sources out there:

"Wijnaldum is Koeman’s first choice but complicated deal with #LFC.
- Thiago more likely to join Premier League than coming back.
"

Like I said Thiago never thought of coming back.
Wijnaldum does not want to leave Klopp and the winning project at Liverpool.

Means we are not buying any midfielder.
Hope at least to see Puig more and more next to Frenkie

Birdy said:

Wijnaldum does not want to leave Klopp and the winning project at Liverpool.

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exactly, why should he leave Klopp and Liverpool ?
For a club in disarray ? with Koeman, no project, no vision, a chaos, Messi 33yo,.... ?
if, only and exclusively for money

Would be nice if we could get him for free next year. Kind of trade Busi's experience for his.
Him and Pjanic would be the only midfielders over 30.