View Poll Results: Who will win the Premier League?

Voters
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  • Liverpool

    15 42.86%
  • Manchester City

    16 45.71%
  • Manchester United

    1 2.86%
  • Chelsea

    2 5.71%
  • Leicester City

    0 0%
  • Tottenham

    0 0%
  • Wolves

    0 0%
  • Arsenal

    1 2.86%
  • Other

    0 0%
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Thread: Premier League 2020/2021

  1. #631
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    There is so much space in the Premier League, I think Barca would find it much easier there, La Liga clubs are very strong defensively, the best in Europe.

    And a cup match isn't representative of two leagues but over 5 years it is a good guide. In the past 5 years La Liga clubs have played 55 games against English Teams, Spanish sides won 28 of those games, drew 13 and lost 14 and won both finals. So that's about 50% win rate for the Spanish, 25% draw & 25% English win.

    Even last year, English and Spanish sides met 10 times with La Liga clubs winning 6 of those with 1 draw and 3 wins for the English sides, and this in a period of transition for the big Spanish clubs. So that is 60% games won by La Liga clubs. If we go back 10 years it is even more dominant for the Spanish clubs. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Premier League is a stronger League.

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebc_99 View Post
    It leaves it in the dust financially but that's about it. Quality of football is higher in Spain, you seem to have fallen for the hype.

    I'm not having Ancelotti or Mourinho either, they are no longer elite managers which is why they are managing Everton and Spurs.
    I haven't fallen for any hype, I was very much La liga > EPL and had many debates with PL fanboys back then when they were calling La liga 'the sunny SPL' but now, the PL is just a better league. more excitement, the best players are spread more evenly. I rather watch fast, end to end crazy scoreline football than 'strong defence' la liga teams playing out 1-1 draws.

    Although La liga doesn't have those huge scorelines, this isn't down to the rest of the league getting better; its down to Barca and Madrid sucking.

  3. #633
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    There is distinction between "more exciting" and "more quality". I could agree that it's overall more exciting, but the quality of passing, technique, amount of turnovers and tactical awareness is still kinda shit for most teams. I have turned off some matches just because of that.

  4. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Givenchy View Post
    I haven't fallen for any hype, I was very much La liga > EPL and had many debates with PL fanboys back then when they were calling La liga 'the sunny SPL' but now, the PL is just a better league. more excitement, the best players are spread more evenly. I rather watch fast, end to end crazy scoreline football than 'strong defence' la liga teams playing out 1-1 draws.

    Although La liga doesn't have those huge scorelines, this isn't down to the rest of the league getting better; its down to Barca and Madrid sucking.
    Just because you find it more exciting doesn't make it stronger, loads of goals and end to end football is evidence that the quality isn't there, top level football isn't supposed to be end to end, and fast pace leads to less control which hurts the English teams in Europe. And all the teams in England play the same style of football, which leads a lot of the games feeling very samey with little tactical diversity which is a strength of La Liga.

  5. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebc_99 View Post
    Just because you find it more exciting doesn't make it stronger, loads of goals and end to end football is evidence that the quality isn't there, top level football isn't supposed to be end to end, and fast pace leads to less control which hurts the English teams in Europe. And all the teams in England play the same style of football, which leads a lot of the games feeling very samey with little tactical diversity which is a strength of La Liga.
    Quality doesnt equal entertainment, and at the end of the day, football is entertainment.
    You ask the average football fan if they want to see end-to-end football like Spurs - West Ham, or Spain 2010, i think we all know what most will say.

  6. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Givenchy View Post
    I haven't fallen for any hype, I was very much La liga > EPL and had many debates with PL fanboys back then when they were calling La liga 'the sunny SPL' but now, the PL is just a better league. more excitement, the best players are spread more evenly. I rather watch fast, end to end crazy scoreline football than 'strong defence' la liga teams playing out 1-1 draws.

    Although La liga doesn't have those huge scorelines, this isn't down to the rest of the league getting better; its down to Barca and Madrid sucking.
    Excitement means fuckall about quality of football. It doesn't help people always use the vaguest of words like 'better' and can't decide what it actually refers to. People really need to be more specific. Here are some thoughts I think are more precise:

    - it's the most 'excitable' league if all you need to see to be entertained is something as simple as goals; in EPL high scoring games are likely regardless of the club you talk about, Leicester beat Southampton 8-1 didn't they? games are likely to be more open and therefore a good watch regardless of the fixture you tune into
    - it's more competitive, in the sense that more teams will threaten each other's position because any team down to ~10th in mid-table (and beyond, if backed financially i.e. Villa, Leeds, Fulham) can afford high-fee transfers and sustain large wage of good players; in most other leagues that margin is about 5-6th place tops
    - it's the most marketable; English language being ubiquitous helps outreach around the world and it's far easier to attract investors (see teams from 3rd rate cities like Birmingham or Wolverhampton easily securing the financial backing they need), and get the businessmen themselves invested in the team they buy as they already speak the local language for their own professional purposes
    - more established good coaches and new exciting ones like a challenge in low risk projects; the margin of failure is absolutely fucking huge for upper-midtable projects like Everton, Wolverhampton, Leicester or Arsenal who are all expected to end up anywhere between 4-10th without anyone sacking the manager on the spot if a given season expectation isn't reached due to sheer breadth of competition; it's so much easier for job security, wage and creative freedom than midtable Spain, Italy or anywhere else
    - it's the most professionally presented by broadcast companies and the most accessible on TV grounds with tonnes of Sky-BT clips available on Youtube that anyone (sometimes needing VPN) can access without having to learn an extra language; compare the amount of punditry you get linked from Sky, BeIN, ITV on this forum alone to punditry from other leagues - again marketability
    - it's also the most trendy; who the fuck wants to play in a league where competitors get as much bad English press as Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus or PSG do? the only pull factors in post-MessiCR era for Italy and Spain are climate and possibly tax/image rights laws

    It honestly all boils down to the ease of making money with English language dominating all the global media.
    When you can throw money at a problem (paying a manager, patching a squad hole) and you know you're going to get TV revenue, reliable fan support (horrendous stadia maintenance costs in Spain and Italy hiking ticket prices) and you don't need to do financial gymnastics to keep away from FFP (or even take a hit from sanctions and still be OK), it's so much easier.
    Compare this to shitshows of Peter Lim Valencia, Milan, Inter etc etc..

    None of this for a second means EPL as a league entity is characterised by 'better football'. It doesn't mean it's more thought out or intricate. It doesn't mean it's better executed. It doesn't mean it's more consistent. It doesn't mean players apply themselves more in big European fixtures or even succeed more. It doesn't mean it's more of a football challenge. On project setup side of things it may in fact be 1000x more challenging to be anywhere but England. But it will not be more profitable. People won't watch your football unless you have immediate impact on the continent. Not the case in England.

    PS
    Bullshit about unexpected scorelines being a measurement stick for league quality. This used to get brought up back in Pep-Mourinho days as well and English teams were regularly getting exposed for what they are in serious conditions. Not at all something to draw 'better league' statements from and if it makes you want to tune in to the league more often, you should question why you're watching it. Because such results don't happen through planning & successful execution and are for all intents and purposes anomalies.
    Last edited by Wolfe; 19th October 2020 at 08:37 PM.
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  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebc_99 View Post
    Just because you find it more exciting doesn't make it stronger, loads of goals and end to end football is evidence that the quality isn't there, top level football isn't supposed to be end to end, and fast pace leads to less control which hurts the English teams in Europe. And all the teams in England play the same style of football, which leads a lot of the games feeling very samey with little tactical diversity which is a strength of La Liga.
    You are right that excitement doesn't make it stronger, atleast statistically but i watch football to be entertained (outside of Barca) and the PL delivers

    a result like Aston Villa winning 7-2 vs Liverpool is something you'll never see in La liga. again, is it good for #1 PL team getting beat like that? if you're a Liverpool fan its not but for the neutrals its incredible.

    I'm not saying La liga will end up like Serie A BUT its alarming how far our league is falling behind. Barca are pretty much in financial ruins, we can't afford to sign a cut price Depay whilst a team like Wolves can blow ?28mil on Semedo

  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morten View Post
    Quality doesnt equal entertainment, and at the end of the day, football is entertainment.
    You ask the average football fan if they want to see end-to-end football like Spurs - West Ham, or Spain 2010, i think we all know what most will say.
    Who cares what blebs say. I enjoyed the peak Spain way more than all these physical teams running up and down the field like headless chickens, who play with no intricacy and imagination. For me higher mastery of the football is more aesthetically pleasing than end to end bullrushing. Obviously it can get stale, when the quality of players are bad, but PL hasn't become that much more refined despite all the best players being there. Agree that there is very little tactical diversity of styles too. It makes for a lot of generic matches, where you expect everyone playing low grade pepball.

  9. #639
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    Who is talking about Spain 2010?
    Spanish football was at its heyday between 08 and 12, and by far the best league then with the best teams.
    That era is long gone, its reverberation lasted a bit, but since at least 2016 LaLiga is progressively worse every year in terms of the quality of football being played.

    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    But surely with their cutting edge tactical approaches they would have been the much superior teams in the CL over a big sample size ? Yet that isn't the case
    i) The sample size is not as big as the argument 'Spanish sides win European competitions' wants to make it.
    If you count all the head to head Laliga team Vs EPL team the last 4 seasons, you will get like around 40 games or so, as many as only ONE team plays every year in their respective league.
    ii) You have to see what tier the teams are when they play each other. Let's say Barca,RM are tier 1 in Spain the last 3 years, and Liverpool, City Tier 1 in England the last 3 years. And lest say Atleti, Sevilla, Valencia Tier 2 and Chelsea, UTD, Tottenham Tier 2 (and then you have Arsenal, Leicester, Wolves Tier 3)
    If a Spanish Tier 1 gets frequently drawn with English Tier 2 or even Tier 3 and frequently wins it, it says nothing about 'Spanish sides being better'. Because higher Tier is always expected to win.
    iii) As i said before, knock-out ties are determined by factors that cannot possibly be evened out, and should never be the benchmark.

    So, the 'sample size' argument fails in the light of all the above.
    The completeness and fairness of a League where everyone plays everyone cannot be replicated by these kind of cheap head to head metrics.
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  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnidrologist View Post
    There are still more young talent coming from spanish teams than in England. That's why they are scooping up a lot of them and there are hardly any really world class english players setting the tone in there league. It's nominally stronger, because of greater buying power, but rarely any club there becomes great franchise because of that.
    It's not like La Liga has loads of world class Spanish players either.

  11. #641
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    Still more than in England. English upper tier clubs are dominated by mercenaries, including spanish ones, and there are still enough of then home. Even in these somewhat bad times with no pronounced superstars at their peak. This wouldn't be possible the other way around.

  12. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnidrologist View Post
    Still more than in England. English upper tier clubs are dominated by mercenaries, including spanish ones, and there are still enough of then home. Even in these somewhat bad times with no pronounced superstars at their peak. This wouldn't be possible the other way around.
    I would say England and Spain are pretty evenly matched at the moment. I'm looking at their national team squad and I'm not sure who all of these world class players setting the tone in La Liga are. The main reason there are so many more Spanish players in England right now is because they're cheaper and English clubs pay more in wages.

  13. #643
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    la liga is so overrated now. 95% of the players are farmers you'll never hear of

  14. #644
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    Leeds officially the best club in the premier league.
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    Valverde: "This is football. It costs us and it costs the whole world."

  15. #645
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    Bielsa makes Bamford look like a world beater