View Poll Results: Who will win the Premier League?

Voters
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  • Liverpool

    14 42.42%
  • Manchester City

    15 45.45%
  • Manchester United

    1 3.03%
  • Chelsea

    2 6.06%
  • Leicester City

    0 0%
  • Tottenham

    0 0%
  • Wolves

    0 0%
  • Arsenal

    1 3.03%
  • Other

    0 0%
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Thread: Premier League 2020/2021

  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    This is a cyclic argument imo. It's obvious that as time passes and opponents get to play you again and again and again they will get to practice more and more and will get better at blocking you. I'm not disputing that. It's obvious some evolution happens on the side of the opponent. But it's not the main reason why great teams (wouldn't call City a great team but still) decline. The main reason why they decline is that they just can't keep up doing the same routine at the highest level. That stress and that peak can only be handled for 3-5 years.

    If 2009 or 2011 Barca would play today, a fresh team, they would dominate any team and would be favorite for every trophy. After 3-4 years they would again start to lose steam and would be losing more and more to sides they would have beaten in the past.

    Especially 2011, they would dominate like the old times, basically unbeatable, park the bus and prey you score a setpiece, it was all you really could do.
    Though, CL is CL, you can have the best team in the world by a distance, but silly/crazy things just happens in that tournament.

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    This is a cyclic argument imo. It's obvious that as time passes and opponents get to play you again and again and again they will get to practice more and more and will get better at blocking you. I'm not disputing that. It's obvious some evolution happens on the side of the opponent. But it's not the main reason why great teams (wouldn't call City a great team but still) decline. The main reason why they decline is that they just can't keep up doing the same routine at the highest level. That stress and that peak can only be handled for 3-5 years.

    If 2009 or 2011 Barca would play today, a fresh team, they would dominate any team and would be favorite for every trophy. After 3-4 years they would again start to lose steam and would be losing more and more to sides they would have beaten in the past.
    Ok, we have two factors:
    1. opponents learning how to play against you and getting better and better each new season
    2. your players getting tired physically and mentally after a few years

    BUT, that means even if Pep's players wouldn't tire, they would still be less and less dominant in each new season.

    The same applies for Xavi-Iniesta-Messi.
    Even if they would have been robots who don't age and don't get tired, their magic would have stopped after a few years if they would play EXACTLY THE SAME TRICKS from 2011 over and over.

    Again, my feeling is that people here still neglect that part.
    They believe that if you execute a style from 2011 with a perfect coach and perfect players, results will come.

    10 years have passed.
    Even a style from 2011 is outdated today and it needs some major upgrades.

  3. #318
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    Another weekend full of pathetic VAR decisions in the Premier League. Needs to be seriously re-evaluated it's spoiling football.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Ok, we have two factors:
    1. opponents learning how to play against you and getting better and better each new season
    2. your players getting tired physically and mentally after a few years

    BUT, that means even if Pep's players wouldn't tire, they would still be less and less dominant in each new season.

    The same applies for Xavi-Iniesta-Messi.
    Even if they would have been robots who don't age and don't get tired, their magic would have stopped after a few years if they would play EXACTLY THE SAME TRICKS from 2011 over and over.

    Again, my feeling is that people here still neglect that part.
    They believe that if you execute a style from 2011 with a perfect coach and perfect players, results will come.

    10 years have passed.
    Even a style from 2011 is outdated today and it needs some major upgrades.
    The latter part of this argument implies football teams ONLY get better and better over time. Because you're saying 2011 or 2009 Barca at its peak would need major upgrades to compete in modern football.

    The conclusion is that Liverpool 2019 and Bayern 2020 are the top 2 greatest/best sides of all time.

    Is that the conclusion you're willing to make?

    But then you're also the guy who says modern attacker goal tallies are inflated and they aren't as good as the prime Serie A/EPL strikers of the 90s/00s. That's an inconsistency.
    Last edited by KingLeo10; 27th September 2020 at 06:46 PM.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Ok, we have two factors:
    1. opponents learning how to play against you and getting better and better each new season
    2. your players getting tired physically and mentally after a few years

    BUT, that means even if Pep's players wouldn't tire, they would still be less and less dominant in each new season.

    The same applies for Xavi-Iniesta-Messi.
    Even if they would have been robots who don't age and don't get tired, their magic would have stopped after a few years if they would play EXACTLY THE SAME TRICKS from 2011 over and over.

    Again, my feeling is that people here still neglect that part.
    They believe that if you execute a style from 2011 with a perfect coach and perfect players, results will come.

    10 years have passed.
    Even a style from 2011 is outdated today and it needs some major upgrades.
    It is the exact opposite of what you are claiming. It is not players tired mentally it is new players that are not as good as ones they replaced.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Ok, we have two factors:
    1. opponents learning how to play against you and getting better and better each new season
    2. your players getting tired physically and mentally after a few years

    BUT, that means even if Pep's players wouldn't tire, they would still be less and less dominant in each new season.
    Yes, up to a point. Practice makes perfect but it doesn't compensate a difference in skill. A proper example would be Nadal on clay. It doesn't mean that if X player plays more against Nadal on clay he'd miraculously improve so much as to beat Nadal. If Nadal keeps his form he will continue to beat you and dominate you until he can't effectively use his skills.

    Repetition of practice alone won't trump skill.


    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    The same applies for Xavi-Iniesta-Messi.
    Even if they would have been robots who don't age and don't get tired, their magic would have stopped after a few years if they would play EXACTLY THE SAME TRICKS from 2011 over and over.

    Again, my feeling is that people here still neglect that part.
    They believe that if you execute a style from 2011 with a perfect coach and perfect players, results will come.
    This is where you are wrong imo. There were no tricks. Pep's Barcelona played what current Liverpool successfully play right now (4-3-3, heavy reliance of pressing as means of defending, heavy reliance on fitness, lots of running, great passing combinations, many many similarities), only with better players on nearly every position.

    Pep's Barca had no gimmicks. Teams knew how to stop us early. Note Chelsea 2009. Rubin Kazan in 2010 and so on. It's just that we were so good that it was incredibly hard to do it, and almost always doing it would involve a huge degree of luck (think Atletico vs Liverpool last season)

    If you pass amazingly well, work very hard every match, and have superior players than whatever team you come up against, you will usually win. Having such huge qualities gives you the luxury of being in charge. Being in charge means that, if you don't fuck up, you will probably win.

    You make the mistake imo of looking at this as some sort of a technical evolution of things, as with computers. This doesn't work with humans.
    Last edited by serghei; 27th September 2020 at 06:59 PM.

  7. #322
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    Pep changed things at Barca. Went 343 and it did not work and he finished off back at 433.

    He has also played 343 at Bayern and at City at times and last two defeats in CL have come with him opting to play in more conservative style.

    To say he is still playing 2011 football and failing is ignorant and his issue has been players and choosing tactics that have failed.. often away from his 'pure' 433 passing game.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Pep changed things at Barca. Went 343 and it did not work and he finished off back at 433.

    He has also played 343 at Bayern and at City at times and last two defeats in CL have come with him opting to play in more conservative style.

    To say he is still playing 2011 football and failing is ignorant and his issue has been players and choosing tactics that have failed.. often away from his 'pure' 433 passing game.
    This!
    Only people looking at very surface level of the game say that Pep has not changed.

    At Bayern he used 3 or 4 formation every year, and his last year he was playing something close to 2-3-5
    Xavi's Cups

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    This is where you are wrong imo. There were no tricks. Pep's Barcelona played what current Liverpool successfully play right now (4-3-3, heavy reliance of pressing as means of defending, heavy reliance on fitness, lots of running, great passing combinations, many many similarities), only with better players on nearly every position.

    Pep's Barca had no gimmicks. Teams knew how to stop us early. Note Chelsea 2009. Rubin Kazan in 2010 and so on. It's just that we were so good that it was incredibly hard to do it, and almost always doing it would involve a huge degree of luck (think Atletico vs Liverpool last season)

    If you pass amazingly well, work very hard every match, and have superior players than whatever team you come up against, you will usually win. Having such huge qualities gives you the luxury of being in charge. Being in charge means that, if you don't fuck up, you will probably win.

    You make the mistake imo of looking at this as some sort of a technical evolution of things, as with computers. This doesn't work with humans.
    Of course, no one figured Pep's Barca out. It's stupid to claim that, especially on a season that Messi as CF broke all records.
    In 2012 CL could have been won.
    The League was lost because Mou built a great team.
    Had Pep stayed, he would have won again in 13, see how easily Tito did that.
    Xavi's Cups

  10. #325
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    Semedo first start with Wolves

  11. #326
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    Liverpool - Arsenal

    Big game, nobody here watching?

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morten View Post
    Liverpool - Arsenal

    Big game, nobody here watching?
    Not really a big game. Liverpool are much better.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Not really a big game. Liverpool are much better.
    Easily looks like the most complete side in the league, judging from this game.

  14. #329
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    That Holding player from Arsenal reminds me of Andreu Fontas from Barca. Clumsy as hell.

  15. #330
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    Liverpool in Anfield is something else. By far the strongest team at home. No Bayern would have beat this Liverpool.