Funny how Barcelona 2014/15 wasn't the best Barcelona ever, but had the best UCL run

Wolfe said:

So were Shakhtar, Bordeaux, Lyon and geriatric AC Milan in the period of the driest Serie A in history. Stop it bro, please, I can't breathe over here

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Why do you care so much? Do you see me getting so worked up about how you rate a team or another?

14/15 was our toughest CL path.

City, PSG, Bayern, Juve (in that season) is arguably the toughest path a team has taken in a long time.

16/17 Madrid and 17/18 Madrid also had very tough paths, but my sense is that Bayern and Juve were both weaker by that time. Juve 14/15 is the only team to beat Madrid in Europe in that 5 year stretch. Though it's pretty impressive how Zizou's RM managed to KO PSG, Juve, Bayern, and Pool while being on its last legs in 17/18.

@serghei
A few posts is getting worked up? Someone over here doesn't seem to like it when the logic behind a statement designed to needlessly elevate another point is questioned, haha. Lolsenal top team by virtue of being present, or not losing straight away in the knockouts and crawling into a 2009 semi, is prime time BS my man. Gotta own up to it or outline consistent reasoning. Do your measuring sticks change over the years? Or do we have ~8-16 'top' teams in Europe every year (i.e. those getting to R16)? Might as well call it 32 top teams, it's called the Champions League after all and only top teams get there.
Being careful with words is important. But apparently sometimes not to you.

There is scarcely ever more than 6 top teams in the world at any given time, vast majority agree on that. Borussia are not a top team. Leipzig are not a top team. Lyon are not and were not a top team, at least ever since their Ligue 1 dominance. PSG are barely ever considered as one. Emery's Seville weren't a top team. Hell, even Galatasaray had a similar CL record in Sneijder+Drogba days, were they a top team too? And yet you'd use the word to describe an 8-year trophyless team as a top one? Nah man, just own up to it, why dig deeper when it seems relatively clear you're saying it just because it was in the middle of the Pep era and you're using it to try to elevate them by painting a picture of 'big time Barcelona beating big time top teams all the time'. No need.

Do not really care if it was the best or not the best Barca, 2014/15 Barca has been the most enjoyable for me to watch. Sure it lasted only half a year or so, sure we did not field the best possible players in all positions and sure, it was not as dominant force as the Pep versions. But if I take all the positives - fast, enjoyable attacking football, fast movement, much more direct style and less playacting and above all, less sterile possession and possibly the greatest attacking trio in their prime combining between each other, I will always prefer that.

KingLeo10 said:

14/15 was our toughest CL path.

City, PSG, Bayern, Juve (in that season) is arguably the toughest path a team has taken in a long time.

16/17 Madrid and 17/18 Madrid also had very tough paths, but my sense is that Bayern and Juve were both weaker by that time. Juve 14/15 is the only team to beat Madrid in Europe in that 5 year stretch. Though it's pretty impressive how Zizou's RM managed to KO PSG, Juve, Bayern, and Pool while being on its last legs in 17/18.

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The gods gave them Ulreich and Karius to make up for their nasty draw that year. Two of the worst type of gaffeurs you're ever likely to see playing a CL semis and final.

@Wolfe, we can argue on the semantics of the expression 'top team' for a whole day, but I think we both have better use of our time.

Here's an actual list of top teams by year:

08/09 - Barcelona, United, Chelsea, Liverpool (last great Torres-Mascherano-Alonso-Benitez year), Inter (pre-peak Mourinho)
09/10 - Barcelona, Inter, United, maybe Bayern (beginning of Ribery-Robben proper)
10/11 - Barcelona, United, Real, Bayern, maybe Ancelotti Chelsea
11/12 - Barcelona, Real, Bayern and the start of Klopp Dortmund
12/13 - Bayern, Dortmund, Real, Barcelona, beginning of QSG and Simeone Atletico
13/14 - Real, Atletico, Bayern, Jose Chelsea, QSG
14/15 - Barcelona, Juve, Real, maybe Bayern (who romped the league unchallenged again and fell out on their only serious test against MSN), Atletico, QSG (arguably the end of their best European period)
15/16 - Atletico (both league meetings close, I still think they were better that season but it's a bit of a vicious circle just like in 13/14 i.e. Real > Atleti, Atleti > Barca, Barca > Real), Barcelona, Real, Juve (rather unluckily eliminated in R16 after ET by Pep Bayern), only time City could ever be mentioned
16/17 - Real, Juve, Atleti, Bayern, the great Monaco, rise of Liverpool, possibly Barca (did take the league quite close TBF)
17/18 - Bayern, Real, Liverpool, Juve, Barcelona, heroic Roma who pushed Liverpool hard, peak Poch Spurs who would be in semis with a better draw
18/19 - Liverpool, Ajax, worse iteration of Spurs but still stronger than City, Barcelona, all other Italian or otherwise contenders were shite really, only Real would be worth mentioning since it's only the 2 week choke with Copa Clasicos that stopped our CL run
19/20 - this year arguably Liverpool, Real, Atleti, Bayern, PSG, Barcelona (again debatable on Atleti & Barca positions)

Wolfe said:

Here's an actual list of top teams by year:

08/09 - Barcelona, United, Chelsea, Liverpool (last great Torres-Mascherano-Alonso-Benitez year), Inter (pre-peak Mourinho)
09/10 - Barcelona, Inter, United, maybe Bayern (beginning of Ribery-Robben proper)
10/11 - Barcelona, United, Real, Bayern, maybe Ancelotti Chelsea
11/12 - Barcelona, Real, Bayern and the start of Klopp Dortmund
12/13 - Bayern, Dortmund, Real, Barcelona, beginning of QSG and Simeone Atletico
13/14 - Real, Atletico, Bayern, Jose Chelsea, QSG
14/15 - Barcelona, Juve, Real, maybe Bayern (who romped the league unchallenged again and fell out on their only serious test against MSN), Atletico, QSG (arguably the end of their best European period)
15/16 - Atletico (both league meetings close, I still think they were better that season but it's a bit of a vicious circle just like in 13/14 i.e. Real > Atleti, Atleti > Barca, Barca > Real), Barcelona, Real, Juve (rather unluckily eliminated in R16 after ET by Pep Bayern), only time City could ever be mentioned
16/17 - Real, Juve, Atleti, Bayern, the great Monaco, rise of Liverpool, possibly Barca (did take the league quite close TBF)
17/18 - Bayern, Real, Liverpool, Juve, Barcelona, heroic Roma who pushed Liverpool hard, peak Poch Spurs who would be in semis with a better draw
18/19 - Liverpool, Ajax, worse iteration of Spurs but still stronger than City, all other Italian or otherwise contenders were shite really
19/20 - this year arguably Liverpool, Real, Atleti, Bayern, PSG, Barcelona (again debatable on Atleti & Barca positions)

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You guys won 4 CL being the clear cut best team in the world 2 times in those years.

We won 3 CL being the clear cut best team in the world 5 times in those years.

Not sure how I feel about that.

What's more amusing is how Liverpool fans react to all this. As if their Klopp run is anything but a blip in this series, provided their attitude to winning and dynasty building remains. These fucks have their best team in history in a period where Real and Barcelona are in a generational decline and they're acting as if it's this historical Liverpool beating topside challengers left and right This is nothing compared to the 2000s when you had circa 8-10 top teams from almost all of top5 leagues, or the 2010-2014. I think only the Germans in 2003-2010 posed little challenge, but to substitute for that you had the great Hiddink PSV for instance. And still each league used to put out at least 2 top teams each.

Wolfe said:

What's more amusing is how Liverpool fans react to all this. As if their Klopp run is anything but a blip in this series, provided their attitude to winning and dynasty building remains. These fucks have their best team in history in a period where Real and Barcelona are in a generational decline and they're acting as if it's this historical Liverpool beating topside challengers left and right This is nothing compared to the 2000s when you had circa 8-10 top teams from almost all of top5 leagues, or the 2010-2014. I think only the Germans in 2003-2010 posed little challenge, but to substitute for that you had the great Hiddink PSV for instance. And still each league used to put out at least 2 top teams each.

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All I know is that they won't be chanting "Welcome to Anfield" anytime soon.



I made a thread a while ago about the best club sides of the decade and some people were legitimately putting Pool ahead of RM 16/17 or Bayern 12/13. Probably would have put them ahead of Barca 14/15 too if not for the Barca bias here. Insanity. My gauge has always been how many top tier national team players does a team have. Barca, Real, and Bayern were littered with those in their pomp while Klopp's creme de la creme midfield of Ox, Milner, and Henderson are nobodies. AM exposed that they can't create through the middle at all and there's not much use spamming crosses unless you have CR7 in the box.

I think some overrate Liverpool, but many underrate them as well. Atletico had a lot of luck. Liverpool was the better team overall, but went out due to small margins and an inspired Oblak. Simeone did a great job too.

There's not a lot between Bayern 12/13, Liverpool of today and Madrid of 16/17. I'd put Barca 14/15 slightly ahead of both because of peak MSN. Barca 2011 beats all of them over 10 games by 2-3 wins margin.

Wolfe said:

Here's an actual list of top teams by year:

08/09 - Barcelona, United, Chelsea, Liverpool (last great Torres-Mascherano-Alonso-Benitez year), Inter (pre-peak Mourinho)
09/10 - Barcelona, Inter, United, maybe Bayern (beginning of Ribery-Robben proper)
10/11 - Barcelona, United, Real, Bayern, maybe Ancelotti Chelsea
11/12 - Barcelona, Real, Bayern and the start of Klopp Dortmund
12/13 - Bayern, Dortmund, Real, Barcelona, beginning of QSG and Simeone Atletico
13/14 - Real, Atletico, Bayern, Jose Chelsea, QSG
14/15 - Barcelona, Juve, Real, maybe Bayern (who romped the league unchallenged again and fell out on their only serious test against MSN), Atletico, QSG (arguably the end of their best European period)
15/16 - Atletico (both league meetings close, I still think they were better that season but it's a bit of a vicious circle just like in 13/14 i.e. Real > Atleti, Atleti > Barca, Barca > Real), Barcelona, Real, Juve (rather unluckily eliminated in R16 after ET by Pep Bayern), only time City could ever be mentioned
16/17 - Real, Juve, Atleti, Bayern, the great Monaco, rise of Liverpool, possibly Barca (did take the league quite close TBF)
17/18 - Bayern, Real, Liverpool, Juve, Barcelona, heroic Roma who pushed Liverpool hard, peak Poch Spurs who would be in semis with a better draw
18/19 - Liverpool, Ajax, worse iteration of Spurs but still stronger than City, Barcelona, all other Italian or otherwise contenders were shite really, only Real would be worth mentioning since it's only the 2 week choke with Copa Clasicos that stopped our CL run
19/20 - this year arguably Liverpool, Real, Atleti, Bayern, PSG, Barcelona (again debatable on Atleti & Barca positions)

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I think 14/15 PSG is quite underrated. They took out Mourinho's Chelsea who went on to win the EPL that season. If they faced any other team besides us they would definitely make it to sf imo.

serghei said:

I think some overrate Liverpool, but many underrate them as well. Atletico had a lot of luck. Liverpool was the better team overall, but went out due to small margins and an inspired Oblak. Simeone did a great job too.

There's not a lot between Bayern 12/13, Liverpool of today and Madrid of 16/17. I'd put Barca 14/15 slightly ahead of both because of peak MSN. Barca 2011 beats all of them over 10 games by 2-3 wins margin.

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I still think Pool are the beneficiaries of a weak Barca, Real, and Bayern. If we had an inkling of a spine in away games, an absolutely sterile Barca would have sent them packing. I know it's fine margins at the top and these things swing either way but I just find it in myself to herald a team as an all time great with obvious lack of quality over some parts of the first XI. We had 0 deficiencies in 14/15. Madrid had 0 in 16/17. Bayern had 1 in 12/13 in Dante, everyone else was top class. Pool have at-least 3-4 (CB, 2 MFs, and sometimes Firmino, at least this season).

The Observer said:

14/15 was the best Barca. The previous versions couldn't win a difficult game without resorting to cheating or controversy.

08/09 would have been out to Chelsea if VAR were already in place. No questions. Even after making it 1-0 in added time with the first shot on target, Chelsea should still have gotten that penalty for Pique's handball. So that team couldn't even hold on for 2 minutes against 10 men Chelsea.

10/11 Mourinho found the right answer with Pepe in the middle as we saw in the Copa del Rey final loss and previous Bernabeu Clasico draw but Alves spun himself 3 times around his own axis to get Pepe sent off. Completely instructed by the coach to do that, see all those face clutches in that game by Barca players:

Not to mention the funny van Persie red card and STILL Bendtner was a toepoke away from knocking "best Barca eva" out.

14/15 was the best version easily. Less midfield dominance (still elite) yet more variety, deadly counters and much more individual quality. I trade Suarez and Neymar in their primes over Pedro and Villa shoehorned to the left wing for a bit less midfield dominance any day every day.

Anything else is nostalgia or Pep fanboyism. All those 6-2s and 5-0s were against garbage teams as well. Madrid in 08/09 with 40 year old Raul and Drenthe, Bayern under Klinsmann in their worst shape ever, Arsenal when they were missing half their team everytime we played them. lol

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Real 2010 was not garbage and Pep's Barcelona rarely had a difficult game because almost always they were so dominant. They played the best football I have ever seen technically, the fluency and precision of their passing in tight spaces, their huge creativity was unparalled, alien football. And Barcelona was far, far, far superior to Arsenal in the second leg in 2011, Barcelona had wasted countless chances before Bendtner's one. Arsenal also didn't shoot once in the entire game. Even in the 2-1 loss in the first leg they were mostly brilliant despite losing and they lost due to complacency at the end of the game. And Barcelona had a goal wrongly ruled out as offside when they were 1-0 up in the first leg.

Matter of fact I looked back at the noughties and from memory + a bit of blanket research this is how it stacks up for me:

00/01 - Bayern, Real, Valencia, United, Super Depor, Ancelotti & Zidane Juventus, Leeds (their last great side with Fowler and Ferdinand) + also early Meelan, Arsenal, Roma winning Serie A with Batistuta, Newcastle is in there, a blip by Anelka at PSG and slow rise of Leverkusen with Ballack, Berbatov, Lucio et al
01/02 - Real, United, Bayern, Lippi Juve, Ancelotti improves at Meelan and the time of real Milan derbies vs great Inter, peak Rivaldo Barca, Arsenal joins title talk, Newcastle still there, Leverkusen a top Monaco-like year, Super Depor consistently beating Real and Barca at home
02/03 - Milan, United, Juventus, Real (these sides were all so good it's difficult to rank without stat info), Valencia, Arsenal, Hitzfeld Bayern ends with a shocking campaign, last Shearer years at Castle, Super Depor continues
03/04 - Milan, United, Arsenal Invincibles, Benitez Valencia wins Liga, culmination of Super Depor with the Milan upset, mad year with Giuly & Rothen Monaco, Ranieri Chelsea with a great run pre-Abramovich takeover, Real curse of R16 starts from hereon after Morientes buries us, Ronaldinho arrives at Barca
04/05 - peak Milan, Jose Chelsea choke semis vs Liverpool, Barcelona well and truly back, Cristiano arrives at United, Juve continue to win Serie A (titles stripped by Calciopoli), Lyon cement their spot as a tough nut to crack, Germans wiped off the grid, Hiddink PSV with a great year
05/06 - Barcelona, peak Milan, Chelsea, Arsenal, United oddly choke their CL group, Inter continues to rise, Pellegrini-Senna-Riquelme Villarreal sensation year
06/07 - Milan's final great year, Cristiano Ballon DOr level United, demise of Jose at Chelsea, Ibra arrives at Inter, Arsenal and Liverpool kinda up there but not really and starting their wishy-washy period, Barca cock it up, Lyon still romping Ligue 1 and challenging in CL, Germans still dead and buried for the most part but Makaay scoring vs Real in 1st minute was funny
07/08 - peak United with CR and SAF with nobody really on their level other than a flukey Chelsea side, Barca drunkenly staggering to a semi, Milan drop off, Inter nearly there on top level

So maybe not as drastic as the 8-10 I mentioned, but pretty close.

Liverpool is nowhere near Barca 08-12 or Milan 02-07 in comparison. Like, not even scraping the barrel. They may get there, but it's very difficult to determine whether this is actually their era starting.

Andresito said:

Yeah I wouldn't call 2011 Arsenal a top team either. Basically the same level or maybe even below today's Inter or Spurs for example, a few good players here and there but underwhelming overall.

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Yet Arsenal in that 2-1 victory against Barcelona in 2011 looked like a top team, everyone played well above their standards, Wenger was awesome, he really elevated his players