Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: I am in pain

  1. #1
    New signing

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    3

    I am in pain

    Hello friends. I am in pain. Our performances this season - and frankly for the last 4-5 years - have been poor. We have lost the cohesion that made us great, and a pleasure to watch whether winning or losing. Maybe it was Neymar's loss. Maybe it was Valverde, or perhaps even Enrique. For me, it seems clear that this downturn is due to the inevitable losses of Xavi and then Iniesta in midfield. What we have been doing since then is playing the same system, and expecting - or at least hoping for - the same results, but with different players. Our midfielders today - all of them, Sergio, Frenkie, Arthur, Ivan, Arturo, Carles, and Riqui - are incredible, and some will soon be the very best in the world. With the talent we've got in midfield and attack, we have the potential to be the best again. But what we're doing with them now in the 433 system is simply not working, and it cannot without Xavi and Iniesta, because they were the ones who had the telepathic understanding of the entire team and the entire game that was always at the heart of the system when it did work. If you want to see for yourselves, then watch the 2011 (with Xavi) and 2015 (without him) CL finals back to back. What we see in the 2011 match takes years to develop, and cannot simply be implemented or reproduced by throwing in new players, no matter how great they are. It is as simple as that. We therefore need to bite the bullet and try a new system, one which is suited to the unique talents we have at our disposal:

    Ter Stegen
    Umtiti - Pique - Lenglet
    De Jong (Arthur) - Busquets (Rakitic)
    Roberto (Semedo / Dembele) - Vidal - Alba (Firpo / Fati)
    Messi - Suarez (Griezman)

    Ok, I know what you're thinking about 352. But look - we've completely and entirely lost our way in defense. Pique shouldn't be dropped, but he can't run anymore. Any one-on-one with him, and we concede at least a chance. But flanked with two outstanding central defenders who can both run and pass, then we're more solid. Also - we've lost our way in midfield, for the reasons discussed above. So why not try De Jong IN THE POSITION THAT WE ACTUALLY BOUGHT FOR AND THAT HE ACTUALLY - IN REALITY RATHER THAN THE XAVI-INIESTA DREAMWORLD WE STILL SEEM TO BE LIVING IN - PLAYS BETTER IN. 86 million Euros for a defensive midfielder, and we're playing him out of position? Really? Alongside Busquets and learning from the best ever in that position, and we truly have the best defensive midfield setup in the world.

    Ok, so if defense is covered, or the long-term problem we've had there has at least been addressed, what about attack? Isn't that depleted at least numerically in this system? Not necessarily, because it pushes our wing-backs - both of them - up to the position of wingers proper (while being able to rely on them in defense when needed), and thus gives us the numbers that we would appear to have lost due to the extra central defender and extra defensive midfielder. They also give us the width we would appear to lose with just 2 in attack. In other areas, our defensive midfielders can take turns to push up - with one staying behind for cover - when the team is in attack (perhaps one of the central defenders too, and of course all three when it comes to set pieces). Vidal has been one of our game changers this season, and this system gives him a shot in his preferred position as well, central attacking midfield. Leaving injuries aside, Suarez in the box and Messi alongside him but basically going wherever he wants in the opposition half. Without Suarez, we try Griezman there alongside Messi, and they take turns to wonder around and create - which is what Greizman prefers doing also - while the other stays in the box. As an added bonus, we can with this system try throwing in Dembele or Fati or - when in dire straits - both in the wing positions, for added speed, prowess in the box, and finishing (at least on good days for them both). Doesn't it make sense?

    So 433 is pretty much Barca ideology by now. When Valverde played around with 4231 on and off during the first half of his first season in charge, there seems to have been push back against him from the Barca hierarchy and possibly fans. But it worked pretty well then, in my view. Given that we are in crisis now, isn't it high time to try something new? And more importantly, shouldn't our ideology not be a particular system (even though it carries the legacy of Cruyff), but rather free-flowing, creative, imaginative, out from the back, passing, pressing, and possession-based football? If another system might help us achieve that, then it's worth trying. But even if that alternate system fails, then at least it will have put our great players in their proper positions, where they can actually perform to their fullest potential, AND sorted out our problems in defense.

    If you've made it this far, thank you for allowing me to vent. If you appreciate what I've said, please pass this message on.

  2. #2
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    588
    Quote Originally Posted by Painless_01 View Post
    Our midfielders today - all of them, Sergio, Frenkie, Arthur, Ivan, Arturo, Carles, and Riqui - are incredible
    Stopped reading here.

  3. #3
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Forum D'Amigos Tactical Unit - BBZ Containment Office
    Posts
    4,414
    The only incredible one from that list is FDJ based on his performances last season. Maybe Arthur if he ever eradicates the Brazilian in him.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    LABarcaFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles - California, USA
    Posts
    513
    Very long post. Way too many words, unfortunately sad in vain.Very far from the truth.

  5. #5
    You're welcome
    Horatio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Basque Country
    Posts
    8,818
    Go see a doctor.

  6. #6
    New signing

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by LABarcaFan View Post
    Very long post. Way too many words, unfortunately sad in vain.Very far from the truth.
    Explain please? Do you think we are playing well? And by the way, did you see the game against Betis on Sunday, where Quique played only Messi and Griezman up front, with Vidal behind them? Both Messi and Griezman played better in this system, even though the defense was still lacking. And if too many words are a problem for you, then don't read and respond.

  7. #7
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    930
    Good one mate.

    I genuinely cannot contain my laughter.

    @Messigician watch and learn.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    LABarcaFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles - California, USA
    Posts
    513
    Quote Originally Posted by Painless_01 View Post
    Explain please? Do you think we are playing well? And by the way, did you see the game against Betis on Sunday, where Quique played only Messi and Griezman up front, with Vidal behind them? Both Messi and Griezman played better in this system, even though the defense was still lacking. And if too many words are a problem for you, then don't read and respond.
    There is no need to answer or explain anything. You are out of this World.

  9. #9
    New signing

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by LABarcaFan View Post
    There is no need to answer or explain anything. You are out of this World.
    You know nothing about Barcelona or football, let alone actual strategy for making my team great again. The fact that you - as you yourself stated - didn't actually read my post is grounds enough to consider any comments you make about it worthless.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    BarçaBarça's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Painless_01 View Post
    We therefore need to bite the bullet and try a new system, one which is suited to the unique talents we have at our disposal:

    Ter Stegen
    Umtiti - Pique - Lenglet
    De Jong (Arthur) - Busquets (Rakitic)
    Roberto (Semedo / Dembele) - Vidal - Alba (Firpo / Fati)
    Messi - Suarez (Griezman)

    Ok, I know what you're thinking about 352. But look - we've completely and entirely lost our way in defense.
    3-5-2 can be quite attacking-minded, if the wingbacks are true wingbacks - like Alba - not like Roberto.
    If we then don't play two out-and-out DM's, but with De Jong and Arthur, then we'd had a fine midfield as well.

    I'd say we need more than a system change - we need a cleansing of the old guard, so we aren't a club de amigos anymore.

    With the Alaba-rumours running right now a 3-5-2 should more like this in a Barca 2020/2021-version:

    -------------Ter Stegen--------------
    ---------Umtiti--Lenglet--Alaba-----
    Emerson---De Jong---Arthur---Alba
    -----------------Messi----------------
    ---------New-------Griezmann------

    With the new CF most likely being Lautaro, but could also be Haaland for example.
    Problems are plentiful even here, for example we need speed in attack, and it is a bit much to ask wingbacks for that only - so it's not that realistic.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    serghei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Forum de Amigos - Tactical Ops. Office
    Posts
    20,313
    Quote Originally Posted by BarçaBarça View Post
    3-5-2 can be quite attacking-minded, if the wingbacks are true wingbacks - like Alba - not like Roberto.
    If we then don't play two out-and-out DM's, but with De Jong and Arthur, then we'd had a fine midfield as well.

    I'd say we need more than a system change - we need a cleansing of the old guard, so we aren't a club de amigos anymore.

    With the Alaba-rumours running right now a 3-5-2 should more like this in a Barca 2020/2021-version:

    -------------Ter Stegen--------------
    ---------Umtiti--Lenglet--Alaba-----
    Emerson---De Jong---Arthur---Alba
    -----------------Messi----------------
    ---------New-------Griezmann------

    With the new CF most likely being Lautaro, but could also be Haaland for example.
    Problems are plentiful even here, for example we need speed in attack, and it is a bit much to ask wingbacks for that only - so it's not that realistic.
    3-5-2 is too crowded in the middle. Really bad option considering the times we're in.

  12. #12
    Villarato!
    Wolfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,789
    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    3-5-2 is too crowded in the middle. Really bad option considering the times we're in.
    3 CM midfield is 'crowded'?
    People are boring.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    serghei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Forum de Amigos - Tactical Ops. Office
    Posts
    20,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    3 CM midfield is 'crowded'?
    5 in reality.

  14. #14
    Villarato!
    Wolfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,789
    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    5 in reality.
    Not really. Not they way he suggested it.
    People are boring.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    serghei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Forum de Amigos - Tactical Ops. Office
    Posts
    20,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    Not really. Not they way he suggested it.
    K. It's corona approved then.