malvolio
Senior Member
excellent post!
Quique Setien
- Thread starter FC433
- Start date
excellent post!
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
They definitely need a creative midfielder like De Bruyne, Modric in the midfield, and get faster and more athletic overall in defence, midfield and attack so they're able to move the ball quicker, move off the ball, be able to be a legitimate threat on the counter attack.
Something like this maybe.
de Jong
AM - Physical B2B
And obviously a CF that can press and play with his back to the goal, and a LW that can run in behind and challenge 1v1 with pace.
Would help having a RB that isn't scared of the ball and a backline that doesn't move in slow motion. A lot of issues that neither the board or Abidal are capable of solving even if you give them an unlimited amount of money.
I doubt Bartomeu is gone this summer. Looks like he'll survive until 2021.
Something like this maybe.
de Jong
AM - Physical B2B
Would help having a RB that isn't scared of the ball and a backline that doesn't move in slow motion. A lot of issues that neither the board or Abidal are capable of solving even if you give them an unlimited amount of money.
I doubt Bartomeu is gone this summer. Looks like he'll survive until 2021.
Last edited:
Latschenkiefer
Senior Member
It is good to be calm and cautious in ko-away games. As most of the times in the last ten years the plan was to not concede and sneak a goal if possible. In contrast to Valverde Setien wanted to defend by keeping possession. So at least he played to the strengths of his players, while Valverde wanted to sit back and hoped that the terrible defenders this team has would magically up their defensive game and the slow attackers would suddenly run the counter at 34 km/h.
A draw away from home is a good result, even more so if you score an away goal. If this is your benchmark I can remind you that even under Pep and Tito we managed to win the glorious number of 3 out of 12 CL-ko-away games from 08/09 to 12/13 with a way better team against mighty Shakhtar and Leverkusen - and Madrid.
A draw away from home is a good result, even more so if you score an away goal. If this is your benchmark I can remind you that even under Pep and Tito we managed to win the glorious number of 3 out of 12 CL-ko-away games from 08/09 to 12/13 with a way better team against mighty Shakhtar and Leverkusen - and Madrid.
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
So I really disagree with a lot of the overall sentiment here. I’m seeing the rest of this season for what it is: we shouldn’t win a single trophy this season and if we do, added bonus. I just want to see the beginnings of a rebuild and that’s what I’m seeing.
We are far from a perfect product: We do look a bit sterile in possession at times, there are clear signs the squad needs a MASSIVE overhaul, we’ve never truly filled Xavi, Iniesta or Dani’s departures with genuine, long-term quality for some time now. This is nothing new, won’t change under Bartomeu so why harp on it?
All I care about is seeing us improve on the pitch, and while we have deficiencies still and probably won’t conquer Europe, we ARE improving and we need to chill on Quique. Keep in mind, his first ever CL game was away from home in a knockout tie, I think I’d be a little on the cautious side as well, so I can’t really blame him for that. I don’t have any problems with being more pragmatic in these specific fixtures anyways, so the line-up didn’t bother me too much, outside of Rakitić. Vidal made a lot of sense, Napoli are an energetic team under Gattuso and matching that intensity makes sense. Overall, I’d say it was the best display away from home I’ve seen from us in years. You have to give credit where it’s due here: almost every knockout away game we’ve played recently where we give up the first goal has ended in humiliation: 4-0, 4-1, 3-0, 4-0. For the first time in a long time, we actually showed some character and found a way to get back into the game. Unlike any game under EV away from home, we actually looked the more dangerous team, did a good job of pinning them back and I think we were in control for a large majority of the game. Under EV in these circumstances, we would have gotten pummeled. So to fight back into this game and get a result is encouraging for me.
I can’t really tell what trajectory we are on right now but at the very least, I think Setien will at least help repair the damage EV has done and get us back to when Lucho left, at least. We play better football, this sort of play (despite being perhaps a slightly pale imitation) will help us promote and grow our youth players more and we are at least more fun to watch than we used to be. But I can’t put a lot of blame on Setién in this situation, for me he is doing a lot of the right things and making the right decisions, despite the execution of it is still waiting to be perfected. So with that in mind, I have to look at the players here more. It’s 50% players being either not to standard or past their prime and 50% just clueless squad management from the board. On merit, the only players who will be starters in 2 years are Messi, FdJ, MaTS, Ansu and MAYBE Umtiti. Anyone else is really either not the right fit or past it. I would have included Arthur in there a few months ago but I’m really starting to worry about him as well.
Rakitić and Griezmann are simply invisible out there, Busi & Pique still provide a lot but are clearly at the twilight and lack the physical aspects necessary to compete, Vidal is just so hot/cold and can have moments like tonight, really the only vets/amgios who are up to snuff currently are Messi and Alba.
So again, with all of this, it’s not going to be a perfect model. But I think we really have to get real here a bit, lower our expectations this season and really be as clear and objective of this situation as we can be. I personally see plenty to be happy about, plenty to be excited and hopeful about despite the more sobering signs. I really feel like, from a purely sporting aspect, there are more positives than negatives. Despite our deficiencies and how depleted the squad is, we are growing and improving, at the right time of the season. So while I hear a lot of ya and there are valid criticisms to be had when looking at the current situation, I do see signs of improvement that at least help me gain some of my pride and passion back for this club.
We are far from a perfect product: We do look a bit sterile in possession at times, there are clear signs the squad needs a MASSIVE overhaul, we’ve never truly filled Xavi, Iniesta or Dani’s departures with genuine, long-term quality for some time now. This is nothing new, won’t change under Bartomeu so why harp on it?
All I care about is seeing us improve on the pitch, and while we have deficiencies still and probably won’t conquer Europe, we ARE improving and we need to chill on Quique. Keep in mind, his first ever CL game was away from home in a knockout tie, I think I’d be a little on the cautious side as well, so I can’t really blame him for that. I don’t have any problems with being more pragmatic in these specific fixtures anyways, so the line-up didn’t bother me too much, outside of Rakitić. Vidal made a lot of sense, Napoli are an energetic team under Gattuso and matching that intensity makes sense. Overall, I’d say it was the best display away from home I’ve seen from us in years. You have to give credit where it’s due here: almost every knockout away game we’ve played recently where we give up the first goal has ended in humiliation: 4-0, 4-1, 3-0, 4-0. For the first time in a long time, we actually showed some character and found a way to get back into the game. Unlike any game under EV away from home, we actually looked the more dangerous team, did a good job of pinning them back and I think we were in control for a large majority of the game. Under EV in these circumstances, we would have gotten pummeled. So to fight back into this game and get a result is encouraging for me.
I can’t really tell what trajectory we are on right now but at the very least, I think Setien will at least help repair the damage EV has done and get us back to when Lucho left, at least. We play better football, this sort of play (despite being perhaps a slightly pale imitation) will help us promote and grow our youth players more and we are at least more fun to watch than we used to be. But I can’t put a lot of blame on Setién in this situation, for me he is doing a lot of the right things and making the right decisions, despite the execution of it is still waiting to be perfected. So with that in mind, I have to look at the players here more. It’s 50% players being either not to standard or past their prime and 50% just clueless squad management from the board. On merit, the only players who will be starters in 2 years are Messi, FdJ, MaTS, Ansu and MAYBE Umtiti. Anyone else is really either not the right fit or past it. I would have included Arthur in there a few months ago but I’m really starting to worry about him as well.
Rakitić and Griezmann are simply invisible out there, Busi & Pique still provide a lot but are clearly at the twilight and lack the physical aspects necessary to compete, Vidal is just so hot/cold and can have moments like tonight, really the only vets/amgios who are up to snuff currently are Messi and Alba.
So again, with all of this, it’s not going to be a perfect model. But I think we really have to get real here a bit, lower our expectations this season and really be as clear and objective of this situation as we can be. I personally see plenty to be happy about, plenty to be excited and hopeful about despite the more sobering signs. I really feel like, from a purely sporting aspect, there are more positives than negatives. Despite our deficiencies and how depleted the squad is, we are growing and improving, at the right time of the season. So while I hear a lot of ya and there are valid criticisms to be had when looking at the current situation, I do see signs of improvement that at least help me gain some of my pride and passion back for this club.
Last edited:
Ghostmaster
Danger Ahead
I think he did well for his first CL game, the pressing especially has improved drastically under Setien, there were couple of times when we could have taken the ball directly from the keeper and score a goal in open net. Yeah him choosing Rakitic sucks, but I think he wanted someone on the bench in case he needed to change the game because if he left Rakitic on the bench and we are 1 or 2 goals down, when what? You bring Rakitic to improve the game? FFS the team as Barca should have better options than Rakitic and Fati on the bench.
The injuries situation is obviously atrocious but there's no excuse for the lineup and tactics of the match. PLaying 4 dm's one of them on the wing? With Frenkie basically playing lm some parts of the game. Like I get that you can't go all guns blazing but maybe play 2 dm's a cm and an actual winger (Fati), that brings balance in the team then. We turned up to hold onto the ball and be defensively stable but looked incredibly vulnerable.
Gaudi
Senior Member
I agree with premise not the conclusion, ok, if mental problem exists I don't know...but yesterday we had: Griez, Arthur, Vidal, Firpo, Semedo, FDJ, Umtiti...they all are not Barca products, they all played in teams that play faster and with more dynamic. You don't jus lose that, it's our flawed style to blame. Many times you can see FDJ basically waiving with his hands finding no solution.
It's the wrong, perverted idea that our style = possession and not that our sytle causes possession.
Yes, we will have couple of km less than opponents even thanks to Messi but that's fine, but movement of the rest is not there. Busi for example moves enough but in wrong places, yes, ideally we would have someone faster, but speed is not the main issue here.
Yesterday we did one vertical movement and it resulted in a goal. But it's not only movement it's the will to pass to those players and then recycling possession, but we only play safe passes horizontaly, scared to lose a ball.
Actually there was couple of games when QS took over and we run almost as much as opponents, yet we didn't create anything...we run less with EV and again didn't create anything, it's the wrong idea that we have to keep staticall possession and wait for some magic ball to come.
In terms of lineup against Napoli - the only things I didn't like are Rakitic starting instead of Arthur and Fati being subbed on too late in the game imo. We desperately needed someone who could run with the ball and only Fati was potentially capable of that out of the depleted bench. In the case of Rakitic, I can't really blame Setien, though, as I feel he'd been playing slightly better in the last few games (not against Napoli...), plus I don't expect Setien to have his ideal set-up already figured out in a month-and-a-half, mid-season. Oh yeah, and FDJ playing so high up the pitch... It's obvious he's struggling there and the only excuse I have for it is the depleted squad
One area I'd give credit to Setien is that we do end up in a lot of promising positions. The problem is we don't convert those into actual chances and its due to the mindset of the players. Whenever they get in a promising position, their heads are not turned towards goal or at least towards the penalty box, they're looking back. Looking for the safe pass, or specifically looking for Messi. Pretty much all of them are guilty of that, barring Messi (obviously) and possibly Fati and Vidal. I think Griezmann especially can show so much more, if only he turned towards goal more often and got Messi out of his head...
I'm not sure if there's anything Setien or his team can do about this problem (I very much doubt it in fact), but it frustrates me so much because it's not due to a lack of quality in the squad (although that's a different problem we have altogether)
One area I'd give credit to Setien is that we do end up in a lot of promising positions. The problem is we don't convert those into actual chances and its due to the mindset of the players. Whenever they get in a promising position, their heads are not turned towards goal or at least towards the penalty box, they're looking back. Looking for the safe pass, or specifically looking for Messi. Pretty much all of them are guilty of that, barring Messi (obviously) and possibly Fati and Vidal. I think Griezmann especially can show so much more, if only he turned towards goal more often and got Messi out of his head...
I'm not sure if there's anything Setien or his team can do about this problem (I very much doubt it in fact), but it frustrates me so much because it's not due to a lack of quality in the squad (although that's a different problem we have altogether)
malvolio
Senior Member
we are dreadful to watch lately. 0 intensity, possession without doing anything with it and every counter against our defense is dangerous. what's the fun part in that? conceding every game against semi-decent opposition?
sorry but can't see any improvement, just excuses for a guy that hit the jackpot in getting this job. going forward with setien is just as disastrous as not sacking valverde at the end of last season.
This is basically how CL away games are played at the highest level. Rarely do sides hit a 3-0 like Bayern @ Chelsea. Not to forget Napoli are in great form in Serie A.
Setien made one mistake, and that was not to sub Griezmann for Ansu when it was originally planned. Griezmann scored and as happens so often, Setien opted to leave him on the pitch.
Setien made one mistake, and that was not to sub Griezmann for Ansu when it was originally planned. Griezmann scored and as happens so often, Setien opted to leave him on the pitch.
FCBarca
Mike the Knife
[MENTION=10166]i_bleed_blaugrana[/MENTION], fully agree
I'd only add the obvious, that our sporting recruitment & management has been piss poor. The player movements, loans & incoming transfers have mostly been far off the mark. Apart from the obvious in Griezmann not really having an ideal position on the pitch for this team, our fullbacks and lack of wingers are a major issue - even in spite of the injuries. How can a club like Barcelona not have one legitimate winger much less depth? It's very strange planning.
I liked a lot of what I saw on the night despite how static and how much we looked like a Valverde side out there for large stretches (Mostly owing to Napoli sitting so deep). Firpo looking a colossal failure as an acquisition which is a shame as there were high hopes for him.
As for midfield, the reality is that without Suarez out there the only consistent linkup with Messi comes with Rakitic or Busquets. The chemistry with De Jong & Arthur still requires more time to improve confidence & understanding in matches like last night. Gotta believe an opening will happen again for Riqui Puig and that he will make the most of his opportunities
As for Griezmann, Setien has to find a way to better exploit him in CL since there is no Braithwaite to provide width - only way that happens is with Fati on the left & Mesi on the right and Griezmann central. Because as it stands, not only are Barca underdogs in the competition but Messi is required to do far more on his own with defenses more than ever focusing on him alone as a goalscoring threat
I'd only add the obvious, that our sporting recruitment & management has been piss poor. The player movements, loans & incoming transfers have mostly been far off the mark. Apart from the obvious in Griezmann not really having an ideal position on the pitch for this team, our fullbacks and lack of wingers are a major issue - even in spite of the injuries. How can a club like Barcelona not have one legitimate winger much less depth? It's very strange planning.
I liked a lot of what I saw on the night despite how static and how much we looked like a Valverde side out there for large stretches (Mostly owing to Napoli sitting so deep). Firpo looking a colossal failure as an acquisition which is a shame as there were high hopes for him.
As for midfield, the reality is that without Suarez out there the only consistent linkup with Messi comes with Rakitic or Busquets. The chemistry with De Jong & Arthur still requires more time to improve confidence & understanding in matches like last night. Gotta believe an opening will happen again for Riqui Puig and that he will make the most of his opportunities
As for Griezmann, Setien has to find a way to better exploit him in CL since there is no Braithwaite to provide width - only way that happens is with Fati on the left & Mesi on the right and Griezmann central. Because as it stands, not only are Barca underdogs in the competition but Messi is required to do far more on his own with defenses more than ever focusing on him alone as a goalscoring threat
George_Costanza
Active member
Total-Football
Senior Member
Barca ran 100 km yesterday. In contrast to napoli 110 chealsea 114 bayern 115 km. #semiretiredathletes
Home of Barca Fans
