Quique Setien

Under EV I was never concerned we couldn't score.

Now Setien has shattered that belief. I fear the worst that EV was overachieving with these bums and we are in free fall.

How many weeks did he even have till now?lol Whether he ends up being a flop or not, no managers will be able to fix the problem or show any improvements this quickly. This is not a fucking computer game.

Messigician said:

Under EV I was never concerned we couldn't score.

Now Setien has shattered that belief. I fear the worst that EV was overachieving with these bums and we are in free fall.

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You absolute clown.

Not scoring v Roma and Pool away is THE reason we didn't go through.

KingLeo10 said:

You absolute clown.

Not scoring v Roma and Pool away is THE reason we didn't go through.

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And what happened in the first legs?

Stop with this bullshit everyone knows the expected goals (xg) for the second leg was incredibly close 1.3 to Liverpool's 2.1

Luftstalag14 said:

I believe it is a 1.5+1 contract, there is no termination clause this summer however there is one in summer 2021, in case the new board after the election chooses not to continue with him.

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Surely they can terminate whenever they like. It'd be extremely daft to miss out on this season's manager market in the summer.

Messigician said:

And what happened in the first legs?

Stop with this bullshit everyone knows the expected goals (xg) for the second leg was incredibly cross 1.3 to Liverpool's 2.1

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No one cares about xG you muppet.

Not scoring a single goal in 2 huge CL games when that would have put us through is way worse. But why am I wasting my time with an idiotic troll like you. You've gone rabid since EV's firing.

Messigician said:

Under EV I was never concerned we couldn't score.

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KingLeo10 said:

No one cares about xG you muppet.

Not scoring a single goal in 2 huge CL games when that would have put us through is way worse. But why am I wasting my time with an idiotic troll like you. You've gone rabid since EV's firing.

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Back to back trebles were on.

Tackle said:

Back to back trebles were on.

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You're blaming Dembele, a sub in both games, more than EV (the manager) for us receiving 7 goals in 2 away games?

Not sure whether you're trolling or being dense. It's impossible to have any meaningful discussion with you if you still subscribe to these ideas.

Did not blame Valverde too much, won't blame him too much. On the tactical side, Messi is the number one obstacle in the team and has been for years. 3 coaches in a row trying to work around it somehow and it's impossible. EV came closest and did the most logical in his first season.

Lucho "wide midfielders Rakitic covering the wings", EV 4-4-2 lower block conventional defending, Setien experimenting with 3 man backline and FDJ covering the right.

Trying to play positional pressing possession football with a player who does not move without the ball, switches positions however he feels like it (winger on paper, right central attacking midfielder in reality) and does no pressing work is a joke.

Whenever Arthur or De Jong have the ball, what exactly is supposed to happen? Messi immediately drops and demands ball to feet, simple 10 yard pass to Messi, Messi looks to play the ball wide to the left wing where Alba is waiting to fuck up every attack. Rinse repeat.

On top of that there is no real quality in the team. No wingers, no pace, no proper fullbacks, no box presence and 3 midfielders that do the same thing, like playing with 3 Busquetses.

Biggest joke is the transfer policy which happens irrespective of the coach. Generational talent like Neymar I do understand, no need for coach greenlight. But Coutinho, Démbéle, even Arthur? If the coach wants Willian to play him as a RCM in 4-4-2 for his system buy him Willian, not a wannabe Xavi or Gervinho Mk2. If you don't agree with the system of the coach, don't appoint the coach in the first place.

Clowns thought this is a golden team that only needed another coach or "anyone but Suarez, with Messi everyone can score". 3 games in and reality hits home. Could have lost 0-4 to a Valencia side without their best player with 1 goal disallowed and 1 penalty saved. Waiting for CL away games against elite teams, now that EV is gone and CL bottler Suarez is injured, I expect fireworks from Barca like everyone else.

KingLeo10 said:

You're blaming Dembele, a sub in both games, more than EV (the manager) for us receiving 7 goals in 2 away games?

Not sure whether you're trolling or being dense. It's impossible to have any meaningful discussion with you if you still subscribe to these ideas.

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he is a troll.

The Observer said:

Did not blame Valverde too much, won't blame him too much. On the tactical side, Messi is the number one obstacle in the team and has been for years. 3 coaches in a row trying to work around it somehow and it's impossible. EV came closest and did the most logical in his first season.

Lucho "wide midfielders Rakitic covering the wings", EV 4-4-2 lower block conventional defending, Setien experimenting with 3 man backline and FDJ covering the right.

Trying to play positional pressing possession football with a player who does not move without the ball, switches positions however he feels like it (winger on paper, right central attacking midfielder in reality) and does no pressing work is a joke.

Whenever Arthur or De Jong have the ball, what exactly is supposed to happen? Messi immediately drops and demands ball to feet, simple 10 yard pass to Messi, Messi looks to play the ball wide to the left wing where Alba is waiting to fuck up every attack. Rinse repeat.

On top of that there is no real quality in the team. No wingers, no pace, no proper fullbacks, no box presence and 3 midfielders that do the same thing, like playing with 3 Busquetses.

Biggest joke is the transfer policy which happens irrespective of the coach. Generational talent like Neymar I do understand, no need for coach greenlight. But Coutinho, Démbéle, even Arthur? If the coach wants Willian to play him as a RCM in 4-4-2 for his system buy him Willian, not a wannabe Xavi or Gervinho Mk2. If you don't agree with the system of the coach, don't appoint the coach in the first place.

Clowns thought this is a golden team that only needed another coach or "anyone but Suarez, with Messi everyone can score". 3 games in and reality hits home. Could have lost 0-4 to a Valencia side without their best player with 1 goal disallowed and 1 penalty saved. Waiting for CL away games against elite teams, now that EV is gone and CL bottler Suarez is injured, I expect fireworks from Barca like everyone else.

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Messi being a problem must also be the reason why EV has failed to achieve anything substantial, stylistically or trophy wise, in his other ventures. Same goes for Enrique and apparently, Setien now.

Messi has 2 obvious weaknesses: lack of tactical discipline (since 14/15) and a poor work rate. On the flip side, he brings us an average of 50 goals and 15 assists a season, a consistency in production that can only be matched by CR7 in football history. Not to mention moments of genius to win deadlocked games (Atletico away a couple months back being the most recent example. There's probably 50 examples at least SINCE Pep left us that I could show you here).

Am I supposed to believe Messi is the root cause of our problems or the fact that the managers have been subpar? Seems like an easy choice to me.

P.S. It becomes harder and harder to take you seriously the more you pine for Neymar while attacking Messi. This 'generational talent' never even sniffed the level of production of Messi in his worst seasons (13/14 and 15/16), has exponentially worse work ethic, exponentially worse tactical discipline, and to top it off is a world renowned diver (WC 2018) and cheat.

To think that Setien's hypes are gone after just one week.

Reading and understanding seems to be a big problem in society nowadays.

I said "on the tactical side, Messi is the number one obstacle". What your brain, for reasons unknown, made of it: "Messi is the root cause of all our problems, we would be better off without him."

Without Messi, team would not even make top 4 at this moment. It does not contradict that he is a tactical liability as well which makes it difficult to implement a system around him. Remember also that we're talking about now, not 25 year old Messi anymore, before you come up with "good coach like Pep did it" 10 years ago.

Messi can score 50 goals and win some individuals games on his own all he wants. He remains a player who plays like a classic #10 from the 1980s.

He can't play as a lone striker because he is not a striker. He needs a player infront of him to open up space and make runs.

As an attacking midfielder his workrate and movement is lacking, you couldn't play him in an offensive midfield 3 position where Iniesta used to play without having 2 prime Makeleles covering for him.

Same problem on the wings, will not stretch the pitch, will not stay wide, will always come inside, will not track his fullback. Will pull the right sided central midfielder out of position to cover for him and will render the rightback useless who can't combine with a nonexisting RW. Cherry on top: no pressing game with only 9 outfield players participating.

In general: Will not move, will not defend, will not press, will walk 10 minutes straight then will pop up with a goal or two, which will decide the game. Coach will have to figure out how to work around it. Either 4-4-2 which is not Barca style or central midfielder being pulled wide or whatever. Tactical conundrum #1. But of course not the only problem when it comes to the club as a whole.

Neymar, if he were injury-free, at this point of their careers, I would trade in a heartbeat for Messi. Neymar covers ground like a normal footballer without idling for parts of the game, has pace, defends, has a fixed position as a LFW which makes it easy to build any modern system around, is 5 years younger and his output in terms of goals, dribbles and assists is hardly lacking in behind Messi. We're not comparing careers here. Messi is arguably top 3, Neymar not even top 30.

Messi simply played well with strikers and wingers, he isn't much of a tactical issue as people put out to be. With players like Griezmann he is too slow at times and cant seem to keep up with Messi.

Don't think formation is always the solution but more so he thrives with the right players. Even with a 442 against Liverpool, Messi was quite isolated and only had Suarez upfront. If we had one more winger he would have a much easier time.

It's almost the same as Argentina when they were barren of proper wingers and his performance was extremely stale.

For a team to succeed players must complement each other. You can't expect the midfield to perform with a weak attacking side all their passes is gonna come passing back to them or absolutely especially if they have no attacking output or firepower.

Messi is very much a false 9 or second striker. Not a pure #10. He is capable of scoring a multitude of goals in any position possible, even outside the box. Sure, he may decline a little (that's perfectly normal btw) a few bad games doesnt change his impact on the games.

Neymar is a terrible number 10 or a striker. His decision making is off at times and not nearly as clinical or effective as Messi. He plays better as a winger. His dribbling rate is pathetic and never was better than Messi's. Heard countless Neymar fanboys told me he will eclipse Messi but never did, or said he's faster and more agile and even said Messi was hogging Neymar's limelight at Barca. Turns out he left Barca and still wasn't as good as before.