Quique Setien
- Thread starter FC433
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
Fuck Shitverde. He created half of these problems. No playing style, weak mentality, days off, no intensity in training or matches.
The man was a d grade clown.
I'm no fan of Setien but at least he doesn't limit himself to being the players bumboy.
The man was a d grade clown.
I'm no fan of Setien but at least he doesn't limit himself to being the players bumboy.
..yet
soul24rage
Senior Member
lol he should stay far away from this club along with Barto
serghei
Senior Member
2nd best at giving days off after Coronavirus.
Messigician
Senior Member
This, I think about it everyday what could have been had a few players not messed up his plan.
serghei
Senior Member
His plan to play like Atletico while in the lead was destined to fail. You need proper defense and hard working forwards to absorb pressure amd play on the counter.
He wanted to play like Simeone did vs Liverpool. The difference is that between 3-2 and 0-4.
Messigician
Senior Member
Not really, it's on the players for not being able to execute his vision, it's clear to everyone what his tactics were why aren't the players responsible?
Eto'o went from playing Tiki Taka under Pep to the opposite brand of football playing fullback under Mourinho, did he shit the bed and complain? No he got on wIth things adapted and won back to back trebles.
Too many people on here simp for players and make excuses. It's not a new concept to defend a heavy lead away from home if our players are incapable of doing so it's time for them to leave
serghei
Senior Member
Well, he should've been able to tell as a manager that the team we had can't sit back, absorb pressure and defend. We were never very good at that. He simply tried to play a brand of football that is not how we play. With players who can't implement it.
This made him an average/bad Barca manager. But a potentially good manager for teams that play on the counterattack. Don't know why you insist with Valverde. Man was responsible for some of our worst defeats since Ronaldinho era. You can't erase that.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Barca never went to Anfield to sit deep and defend....but they should have.
Roberto was chosen ahead of Semedo and Coutinho started in a front three when Barca looked more dangerous in first leg when switched to more of a 442.
The reason Barca were penned in on second leg was due to Liverpool being the better side and playing with intensity couldnt cope with more than Barca trying to set up more defensively and hit on break.
The players are every bit as much to blame for that Anfield result than EV is if not more so. Just as the players had him a bit lucky to be 3-0 in first place.
Barca should have set up more defensively. More structured and tried to hit with Messi and Suarez even if lacked pace. They went to Anfield to score and if backfired as too many players shat the bed as much as the approach to game.
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serghei
Senior Member
That's exactly what they did. Arthur was benched in favor of Rakitic for more defensive solidity. This caused us to lose the battle in midfield, and it resulted in Liverpool hammering us and us caving under the pressure of having to defend most of the game.
Valverde approached both the Roma and Liverpool game trying to defend the 3 goal leads form the first leg. Against Roma he had Dembele who was a great counter player and didn't even use him until it was too late. Against Liverpool he left his only passer under pressure on the bench and used Rakitic instead. Hilariously bad defensive decisions.
It's simple really, if you want to score away goals you don't leave Dembele out (Roma). If you want to have any chance to keep the ball in midfield with that intense Liverpool pressure, you don't leave Arthur out for Rakitic. He took those decisions because he thought more about what Liverpool and Roma will do, than what we will do. That's textbook defensive mentality.
The players and Valverde are all to blame. The manager always has the biggest single blame in defeats like that.
Valverde tried to play the type of game Simeone played. Exactly the same gameplan. The difference is Someone's team can defend, and Barcelona can't. Atletico is equipped to play that football, Barcelona aren't.
Valverde approached both the Roma and Liverpool game trying to defend the 3 goal leads form the first leg. Against Roma he had Dembele who was a great counter player and didn't even use him until it was too late. Against Liverpool he left his only passer under pressure on the bench and used Rakitic instead. Hilariously bad defensive decisions.
It's simple really, if you want to score away goals you don't leave Dembele out (Roma). If you want to have any chance to keep the ball in midfield with that intense Liverpool pressure, you don't leave Arthur out for Rakitic. He took those decisions because he thought more about what Liverpool and Roma will do, than what we will do. That's textbook defensive mentality.
The players and Valverde are all to blame. The manager always has the biggest single blame in defeats like that.
Valverde tried to play the type of game Simeone played. Exactly the same gameplan. The difference is Someone's team can defend, and Barcelona can't. Atletico is equipped to play that football, Barcelona aren't.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
No it wasnt.
Barca set up 433 and not to defend. Which they should have done and tried to match what happened towards end of first leg.
Arthur was benched was a mistake but he was still coming back from injury. Rakitic also offers more going forward than Arthur if breaking it down to that.
Go back and watch the videos of before the game and at half time when EV is trying to get the defence to push up.
The gameplan should have been to set up more defensively but they were too confident Liverpool would over commit and they would score.
Valverde did not try to set up at all like Simeone. You need to go back and watch again and listen to the videos before game and at HT.
Barca were pinned back because team couldnt cope with intensity not on some grand plan to play like Simeone.
serghei
Senior Member
Lol, for Rakitic to do something going forward he needs to break the press. Which almost never happens. Arthur was not benched because he was coming from an injury lol. He was benched because he was worse than Rakitic defensively (in the definition of defense that managers like Valverde, Simeone, Mourinho, Allegri, Conte have).
You can't say Arthur being benched was a mistake and then also say the team was not setting up defensively. It's just a logical fracture. Only way you bench Arthur for Rakitic is if you want to approach the game in a defensive minded manner.
Same vs Roma really. Only reason for why you'd play Roberto instead of Dembele is if you want to approach the game thinking more about the defense, than about exploiting space and scoring goals on the counter.
In both games, Valverde made decisions which can only be explained by him wanting more defensive solidity in those games, at the expense of us creating and scoring chances. Or keeping the ball under pressure, in the case of Liverpool. Which is basically needed to create chances AND protect the defense from dangerous turnovers (which is how Liverpool scored 1st and 2nd goals).
The result of his plan? 0-7.
You can't say Arthur being benched was a mistake and then also say the team was not setting up defensively. It's just a logical fracture. Only way you bench Arthur for Rakitic is if you want to approach the game in a defensive minded manner.
Same vs Roma really. Only reason for why you'd play Roberto instead of Dembele is if you want to approach the game thinking more about the defense, than about exploiting space and scoring goals on the counter.
In both games, Valverde made decisions which can only be explained by him wanting more defensive solidity in those games, at the expense of us creating and scoring chances. Or keeping the ball under pressure, in the case of Liverpool. Which is basically needed to create chances AND protect the defense from dangerous turnovers (which is how Liverpool scored 1st and 2nd goals).
The result of his plan? 0-7.
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Let's not forget; Liverpool's first goal is Alba making an awful decision and then MATS pushing quite a weak central shot into an oncoming liverpool player. Next we have Alba losing the ball again and a shot basically going through MATS' hands. Then we have a header where Wijnaldum somehow outjumps Pique and lenglet. Finally a corner where the goalkeeper and defence didn't organise straight away.
Missing is also the Coutinho chance any forward/midfielder from europa league and above should be scoring, Suarez with his chance that again any europa league level player and above should score and also Alba's chance which he messed up (this one was more difficult to be fair).
I said months ago Valverde was a big fault in the defeat and should shoulder a lot of blame but also could totally understand why Messi said the blame lies with the players. I mean it's pretty unlucky for Valverde that Alba makes 2 shit mistakes when he was having one of his best seasons. MATS who was arguably the best goalkeeper of the year has a stinker, Suarez and Coutinho missing two very good chances all occurring in the same game.
Missing is also the Coutinho chance any forward/midfielder from europa league and above should be scoring, Suarez with his chance that again any europa league level player and above should score and also Alba's chance which he messed up (this one was more difficult to be fair).
I said months ago Valverde was a big fault in the defeat and should shoulder a lot of blame but also could totally understand why Messi said the blame lies with the players. I mean it's pretty unlucky for Valverde that Alba makes 2 shit mistakes when he was having one of his best seasons. MATS who was arguably the best goalkeeper of the year has a stinker, Suarez and Coutinho missing two very good chances all occurring in the same game.
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