Quique Setien

Keep him unless someone better lined up.

KingLeo10 said:

Our style has gotten us 3 CL in last ~10 years and it's gotten Bayern 1 CL in the last ~10 years.

Click to expand...

I disagree that our style has gotten us 3 Cls.
Messi gotten us 3 CLs, not style.

Imo, it is an internet narrative, similar to more than a club, we are different, we rely on homegrown players.

That user Leo Messi used to write posts how our style and ideas are the most successful in the world in the last 15 years.
Well, we had Messi all these years.
Who was a one man show in La Liga.
And when he was younger, he was a one man show in a CL also.

Imagine any of our teams without Messi, can you imagine it winning CLs?
People will reply: Pep's team.
But then, even Pep himself didn't do anything without Messi in the next 6 CL seasons with his style.

In general, I think that our style is eye pleasing, but naive in general for European matches.

And it works only when absolutely everything clicks perfectly.
Never forget that before Messi, Barca had 1 CL in 100 years.
And in majority of years in Europe before Messi, our naivity was on Arsenal's level.

Bayern has spent way less than us and they didn't have Messi.
Imo, if they had our money and Messi, longterm they would produce better results.
Because their club, structure, mentality and even tactics are more stable, balanced, versatile and less chaotic.

BBZ8800 said:

I disagree that our style has gotten us 3 Cls.
Messi gotten us 3 CLs, not style.

Imo, it is an internet narrative, similar to more than a club, we are different, we rely on homegrown players.

That user Leo Messi used to write posts how our style and ideas are the most successful in the world in the last 15 years.
Well, we had Messi all these years.
Who was a one man show in La Liga.
And when he was younger, he was a one man show in a CL also.

Imagine any of our teams without Messi, can you imagine it winning CLs?
People will reply: Pep's team.
But then, even Pep himself didn't do anything without Messi in the next 6 CL seasons with his style.

In general, I think that our style is eye pleasing, but naive in general for European matches.

And it works only when absolutely everything clicks perfectly.
Never forget that before Messi, Barca had 1 CL in 100 years.
And in majority of years in Europe before Messi, our naivity was on Arsenal's level.

Bayern has spent way less than us and they didn't have Messi.
Imo, if they had our money and Messi, longterm they would produce better results.
Because their club, structure, mentality and even tactics are more stable, balanced, versatile and less chaotic.

Click to expand...

Cmon. Spain won World Cup and Euro. I love Messi and I think he is amazing, but he didn't do it by himself.
Why he didn't win anything with Argentina? It's a team game too.

With RM winning La Liga, many people here will soon realize how important it is.

BBZ8800 said:

I disagree that our style has gotten us 3 Cls.
Messi gotten us 3 CLs, not style.

Imo, it is an internet narrative, similar to more than a club, we are different, we rely on homegrown players.

That user Leo Messi used to write posts how our style and ideas are the most successful in the world in the last 15 years.
Well, we had Messi all these years.
Who was a one man show in La Liga.
And when he was younger, he was a one man show in a CL also.

Imagine any of our teams without Messi, can you imagine it winning CLs?
People will reply: Pep's team.
But then, even Pep himself didn't do anything without Messi in the next 6 CL seasons with his style.

In general, I think that our style is eye pleasing, but naive in general for European matches.

And it works only when absolutely everything clicks perfectly.
Never forget that before Messi, Barca had 1 CL in 100 years.
And in majority of years in Europe before Messi, our naivity was on Arsenal's level.

Bayern has spent way less than us and they didn't have Messi.
Imo, if they had our money and Messi, longterm they would produce better results.
Because their club, structure, mentality and even tactics are more stable, balanced, versatile and less chaotic.

Click to expand...

You can't base a teams entire success based on CL's, ultimately it is a cup competition and often the winner of the Champions League doesn't even win their own league. It's also a massive over simplification to say Messi won us those CL. The system did and Messi was a very important part of that.

At that time tiki-taka was effective, but the team also had a blend of attributes, Xavi,Iniesta,Messi but also quick, powerful and dynamic players like Henry,Eto'o,Toure etc who were also no slouches with one touch play either. All of them chipped in with important goals in the CL not just Messi.

Slowly over time, we started packing the team with too many players of the same style, the dynamism was lost and the team was basically small, technical players and then our reliance on Messi to score the goals increased. Let's not forget, the bulk of the Barca team was also part of the time team that won Spain their World Cup and two Euro's.

I'd say now that our system basically is relying on Messi, our performances in the CL have been have flat, uninspired and slow. We are basically relying on one man to do it all and the supporting cast aren't up to it. Unlike in other successful seasons, we had players bar Messi who could step up to the plate, e.g Neymar in 14/15.

fergus90 said:

You can't base a teams entire success based on CL's, ultimately it is a cup competition and often the winner of the Champions League doesn't even win their own league. It's also a massive over simplification to say Messi won us those CL. The system did and Messi was a very important part of that.

At that time tiki-taka was effective, but the team also had a blend of attributes, Xavi,Iniesta,Messi but also quick, powerful and dynamic players like Henry,Eto'o,Toure etc who were also no slouches with one touch play either. All of them chipped in with important goals in the CL not just Messi.

Slowly over time, we started packing the team with too many players of the same style, the dynamism was lost and the team was basically small, technical players and then our reliance on Messi to score the goals increased. Let's not forget, the bulk of the Barca team was also part of the time team that won Spain their World Cup and two Euro's.

I'd say now that our system basically is relying on Messi, our performances in the CL have been have flat, uninspired and slow. We are basically relying on one man to do it all and the supporting cast aren't up to it. Unlike in other successful seasons, we had players bar Messi who could step up to the plate, e.g Neymar in 14/15.

Click to expand...

Great post, and not to mention all the players actually moved off the ball, ran into space and pressed like crazy. Today we have a bunch of past it uncles that are static, shit work rate, slow with no runs into space. The last guy who did it in this club was Neymar.

It doesnt matter who we sign and who the coach is as long as the core of this team consists of all past it seniors. To get any better Suarez needs to be told to fuck off, Rakitic, Busquets and Alba needs to be moved on and replaced with other players.

I just read Aubameyang is interested in Barca and his contract runs out 2021, so get him and we can have something like

Fati - Aubameyang - Messi
Pjanic - FDJ - Vidal
Alba - Lenglet- Pique - Semedo
MaTS

Also by getting Aubameyang relatively cheap we will save some money and can go for Haaland next summer. We will also probably get Garcia to compete with Lenglet and Pique, which is good. This is a pretty good start. We also have Griezmann and can give Dembele and Coutinho to give another shot, if they fail once again they can be moved on next summer and the money can be used to buy other players, maybe Sancho if he isnt sold till then, another midfielder and probably LB.

Bottom line is we must renew the squad, and the sooner we get it over with, the better. Buuut... everyone knows that wont happen. We will have Suarez, Alba, Busquets and Pique start for another year or two with 1 major signing along with it that wont make any difference. I dont know but it feels like dark and tough times are upon us...

32 years old Auba? Yikes

Heard Messi had assisted or scored 80% of goals during Setiens time as manager.
Thats insane, obviously, but Valverde was critized for having Messi bailing him out, doesnt look like anything changed with Setien.

Morten said:

Heard Messi had assisted or scored 80% of goals during Setiens time as manager.
Thats insane, obviously, but Valverde was critized for having Messi bailing him out, doesnt look like anything changed with Setien.

Click to expand...

Valverde's bad period came when Messi was injured.

Imagine Setien without Messi, we woukd be in relegation form

Messigician said:

Valverde's bad period came when Messi was injured.

Imagine Setien without Messi, we woukd be in relegation form

Click to expand...

No it didnt.

In EV last four league games that they won only one of Messi played 90 mins in all of them and played in cup defeat to Atletico.

BBZ8800 said:

I disagree that our style has gotten us 3 Cls.
Messi gotten us 3 CLs, not style.

Click to expand...

That team with say Jadon Sancho (or insert other top class winger here) on the right instead of Messi, and peak Eto'o at no9, would be the shit out of Liverpool and Bayern and would be favorite to win the CL every year.

I think you do not fully grasp the magnitude of having the 3 best midfielders in the world (2 for sure, 1 debatable), some of the best strikers in the world, one of the best right backs of all time, some of the best CBs in the world and fierce leader like Puyol.

Barca without Messi is like an improved Liverpool from today, with more quality in nearly all positions.

What gotten us that domination was a series of exceptional factors which culminated at once. Some great sides have 3 of those factors, but that peak Barca had about 5 of them exploding at the same time.

Morten said:

Heard Messi had assisted or scored 80% of goals during Setiens time as manager.
Thats insane, obviously, but Valverde was critized for having Messi bailing him out, doesnt look like anything changed with Setien.

Click to expand...

its not allowed to change.. thats why we'll hire another average manager. all players must pass to Messi and all managers must totally obey

Givenchy said:

its not allowed to change.. thats why we'll hire another average manager. all players must pass to Messi and all managers must totally obey

Click to expand...

i dont get how thats a messi problem. messi has awful attackers playing with him and some midfielders that can barely control a ball let alone make through passes and no runners. but yeah make it about messi

Zebulun said:

i dont get how thats a messi problem. messi has awful attackers playing with him and some midfielders that can barely control a ball let alone make through passes and no runners. but yeah make it about messi

Click to expand...

and who is the worst of these awful attackers? oh, its Suarez who hasn't scored a CL away goal in 4 years, is finished as a footballer to anyone who watches us but just so happens to be bff with Messi.

how can our midfield make through passes if Messi is dropping deep to get the ball and provides no movement upfront himself whilst his pet can barely run anymore? that leaves our 'RW' in midfield, our ST is a useless void, the only forward making a run is Griezmann/Vidal (if hes playing there) and they don't want to pass to Griezmann. although Dembele has been poor, many times he would blitz past the defender and you see a slow Messi and Suarez jogging in from deep looking totally gassed leading to Dembele brainlessly crossing the ball to nobody

nothing will change unless Messi accepts age has caught up with him and he cannot be the player that does everything, plays every game. at RW hes still at his most dangerous cutting inside.. no manager is going to join FC Messi and tell him what to do though

Givenchy said:

and who is the worst of these awful attackers? oh, its Suarez who hasn't scored a CL away goal in 4 years, is finished as a footballer to anyone who watches us but just so happens to be bff with Messi.

how can our midfield make through passes if Messi is dropping deep to get the ball and provides no movement upfront himself whilst his pet can barely run anymore? that leaves our 'RW' in midfield, our ST is a useless void, the only forward making a run is Griezmann/Vidal (if hes playing there) and they don't want to pass to Griezmann. although Dembele has been poor, many times he would blitz past the defender and you see a slow Messi and Suarez jogging in from deep looking totally gassed leading to Dembele brainlessly crossing the ball to nobody

nothing will change unless Messi accepts age has caught up with him and he cannot be the player that does everything, plays every game. at RW hes still at his most dangerous cutting inside.. no manager is going to join FC Messi and tell him what to do though

Click to expand...

i dont disagree with the suarez issue, but you're implying suarez is playing because of messi which isnt the case. Messi has said time and time again he does not call the shots. The board does and they actively undermines players (i3 ventures) Griezmann has had two good games for the entire season, one messi didnt play and the other, villareal played suicide football for 45 mins. after they changed formation second half, griezmann returned to being ineffective as usual. messi always drops deep when he doesnt receive the ball thats not new. we cant blame the failures of the team on messi. we have to point at the board and valverde/setien/abidal for lacking balls.