Quique Setien

Messi983 said:

Or Heinze.

https://www.fichajes.net/noticias/gabriel-heinze-nueva-opcion-banquillo-barcelona-20200702.html

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Makes sense. Heinz managing a group of baked beans.

We'd have a much better coach than Setien right now had we fired Valverde after Anfield like we should have.

Ahh Man I had a bit of Hope after Setien appointment. Didn't care much about the results, but at least good football.
God feeling miserable now.

The manager is just a stand-in until elections and the dressing room is cleared out. It's going to take a 2004 level rebuild like when Rijkaard took over and the club tried to recover after years of corruption. I think Arsene Wenger is probably the only manager who could or would take over the team for 2020-2021 ahead of elections as it is clear Setien won't continue.

Once we elect Victor Font, give me any one of Xavi, Nagelsmann, or Ten Hag to rebuild the club from the ground up around Frenkie, Riqui, Fati and Trincao.

vegitot said:

Honestly peope say Setien better are all hate Valverde too much yet realise now that Valverde is actually better but dont want to admit that.

Lets pray RM will gift Barca Liga tittle (can not happen anyway)

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He may well be better than Setien but he is one of the main reasons we are in this mess.
Anybody pining for him must have a very short memory.

Valverde is quite clearly a better coach. Setien despite being older feels like a noob compared to Valverde who's been in the game for almost 20 years. The difference in experience is huge.

What can be discussed though is who's got the better ideas for FC Barcelona. None of them rank very high there. Maybe Valverde's pragmatic approach was because he felt nothing else could be done with this team.

The conclusion is that both are different flavours of shit.

DonAK said:

Where are the two CL trophies you said we would win with Valverde?

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In our trophy cabinet, together with other 9 CL trophies in the last 9 years.

We are winning trophies for fun.
We have the best player in history and the most expensive squad in the world (both on transfer fees and wages).
This is why we won 9 CLs in a row.

DonAndres said:

Lol, you're reaching for those grapes my man.

I guess RM didn't go from 93 points in Lucho's last year to 76 points and then 68 points in EV's years?

You're out here painting the picture as if Valverde was the active hand keeping Barca afloat against all odds, in the face of impending doom. Like some kind of martyr, lmfao.

The truth is he oversaw much of the growing toxicity and dysfunction that exists in the squad now. Performance over time under him declined in almost a linear trajectory. Worse and worse over each passing season, increasingly complacent, fewer training sessions, bigger Amigos influence. As the problems grew and become more glaring in every game, Valverde would just say "it is what it is" and that he didn't give a shit about physical preparation, having fewer and fewer training sessions.

This was all culminated in 2 massive European humiliations, if you recall. Valverde didn't keep us from a decline, he oversaw much of that decline and fostered MANY of the horrible circumstances we've found ourselves in.

Our mistake was not firing him sooner, and getting a better new manager who could reasonably try to reboot the project over a summer. Instead we took the half measure and waited until midseason to fire him and replaced him with a guy who was hanging out with his cows and his only other options were coaching in the Saudi/Qatari leagues.

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You know what are the other factors in RM's points?

Here:
If Barca and Real both win 80 points from 36 matches without El Classico.
Then based on results in El Classico, we can have:
Barca 86, Real 80
Barca 84, Real 81
Barca 83, Real 83
Barca 82, Real 82
Barca 81, Real 84
Barca 80, Real 86

So, Real can drop 6 points from El Classico, which poor guy EV was winning for fun.

2. Further, if Barca plays well early in the season (we had like 14 wins and 2 draws in 16 matches in 2017/2018 iirc).
Now pair this with El classico wins, and Barca can easily go to +10 or +15 by February.
And then, RM will lose motivation and play like shit since it is game over either way.
At the end of a season, they will be 15-20 points behind Barca and people could say: the worst Real ever (even though they won 4 Cls in 5 years which makes them the most successful team of all times).

So, sometimes the opponent will play awesome, the same as you.
Sometimes they will fall apart mentally after you beat them in El Classicos and if you get to 10-12 points advantage early on.

Not to mention that EV could have won 5-10 points more in his first two seasons, because he played kids and Boateng in some of the last rounds, like Levante 5:4, away at Celta etc.

Should I even dare to mention that today we have: Messi, Suarez, Griezz, Braithwaite, Fati in attack.

In the first half of 2017/2018 when Ernie broke records we had Messi and Suarez, lol.
And forever injured Dembele.
Coutinho didn't come yet.

We started to play weaker once when Cou came and when EV had to find a place for him.

The best Barca in the last 4 seasons was EV's Barca from autumn of 2017.
With 442 Messi-Suarez.
Without/before Dembele/Cou/Griezz.

We had something like 13 clean sheets in 16 La Liga matches.
And something like 40:5 goals advantage.

A pure luck.
Pure, pure luck.

EV was great in season 1, good in season 2, and crap in season 3. That's in La Liga. In CL we know the story.

And that's just talking results. In terms of developing the team he was nearly zero.

BBZ8800 said:

The best Barca in the last 4 seasons was EV's Barca from autumn of 2017.
With 442 Messi-Suarez.
Without/before Dembele/Cou/Griezz.

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That's true. It was the best Barca since 15/16 in terms of effectiveness.
But it was ugly football, grinding out wins playing like Valencia, and most importantly: it could not eliminate even Roma in CL.
But OK, we all could tolerate it for a little while since the squad was very limited

And guess what? When new quality players that could improve our attacking game came in (like Coutinho, Arthur, Malcom, Dembele back), EV did not improve the team, but on the contrary the team regressed.
It's not only EV fault, it's Messi's, Suarez's, Pique's, the Amigos and above all the board.

But please..
Don't try to argue that Barca could go on playing that Mourinho-esque cagey version of 17/18

In today's game of intense press/counter press, you either need a forward line and/or a midfield who works its socks off all match long. Barcelona have steadily lost this ability to press, and Luis Enrique squeezed the last bit of that juice by turning Barcelona into one of the best counter press teams in the world. Liverpool now has taken over thanks in large part to how hard each of their center midfielders work.

By the time Valverde took over at Barca, the team was well on the decline physically following the intensity of Luis Enrique and ageing. Barcelona need high workrate players on the wings, and not out of position players. This is why the Coutinho, Dembele and now Griezmann signings have been colossal failures. Coutinho and Dembele are #10s. Griezmann is a striker. Pedro was a prime example as is Adama Traore who Barcelona let walk. Pep bought Alexis Sanchez for this reason as well. Only Arturo Vidal has added any vigor to the team in this regard in the last several years now, and that's why Setien has used him all over. Messi, now into his twilight, should be playing as a traditional 10 and not as a the in-cutting right winger.

I thought Setien would bring his tactical experience to the fore to try and make this squad able to compete at a high level again, but Barcelona simply don't have the players do anything innovative tactically suited to the modern game.

Birdy said:

That's true. It was the best Barca since 15/16 in terms of effectiveness.
But it was ugly football, grinding out wins playing like Valencia, and most importantly: it could not eliminate even Roma in CL.
But OK, we all could tolerate it for a little while since the squad was very limited

And guess what? When new quality players that could improve our attacking game came in (like Coutinho, Arthur, Malcom, Dembele back), EV did not improve the team, but on the contrary the team regressed.
It's not only EV fault, it's Messi's, Suarez's, Pique's, the Amigos and above all the board.

But please..
Don't try to argue that Barca could go on playing that Mourinho-esque cagey version of 17/18

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Like hell that Setien brings sexy football back and wins tittles. Quite opposite. Of course not all of his fault.

All of players you name above like Malcom, Coutinho, Arthur, Dembele suck. Malcom struggles in Russia and so does Coutinho in Germany even he plays his position. Dembele injury fraud and Arthur with low fitness level.

huskerdu said:

So just to clarify this is the biggest size you have of it:

http://www.barcaforum.com/customavatars/avatar20461_4.gif

I wanted to share it on instagram, my friends would get a kick out of it. Hilarious!

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When I have the time, will make a new one and send it to you.

Porque said:

Should get Maradona to manage these amigos. If anything, just to prove that being the best footballer ever means jacksh*t when it comes to being a manager.

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I'm sure Messi and Suarez won't dare to upset Maradona. He has a big mouth and can kick ass if he wants to.