Quique Setien

khaled_a_d said:

That is an absolute nonsense to say at least. For someone followed Salah more than anyone else in this Forum since his days in Mokawlon (Contractors)
Salah was already a star player before joining Liverpool, there was big fuss about his signing in Europe, it was just soon eclipsed with Neymar deal.
He wasn't even young when he joined them, he moved there when he was 25.

He flopped at Chelsea because -just like Barca- they were too big of a stage for him. He needed to do his developing somewhere else with less pressure.
You are confusing things here, players in most cases need to take one last step at big clubs, at most two. Not just do most of the developing there. U
Player like Salah needed all those steps somewhere in smaller clubs. He took last step of stardom in Liverpool. But was already worldclass by the time he left Roma.
Same for Mane, Same for VVD who was already one of the top CBs before joining Liverpool.

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Salah went up a whole tier at Liverpool. He was good before, at Liverpool he became great. If he was incredible at Roma he would've cost around 70-80m. He was half that. Malcom money or so.

I agree players should do most of their developing before Barca. It's normal. But there has to be some developing at Barcelona too. And it's just not happening for any player, even De Jong. When De Jong is named best midfielder in the Champions League at Ajax, and his level goes down at Barcelona, there's no doubt that the club is the problem.

We are not signing nobodies, to develop them fully at Barcelona. Never said that. Nor we should do that. We are signing high rated young players, like Dembele, Arthur, De Jong. But every young talent we sign performs worse for us than for their weaker initial teams. That's the opposite of what happens at teams who are managed and ran well.

Anyway, this whole talk can be simplified in a couple of sentences. In my opinion, it is not only the job of the player to make his way at a new club in bad conditions. The clubs is equally responsible to ensure the proper conditions are met, so that the player can naturally move up a level. Or else, players will stagnate, or even worse, decline.

It seems to me based on your comments, if I'm not misinterpreting them, that you put this weight almost exclusively on the younger players. If we keep this mentality, that the younger players have to somehow force their way into a team that is catering only to veterans and amigos, then we'll waste years and a lot of money, and will still get nowhere.

To sum up, I believe that what you say can happen with some players, but there are also talented players who could make it with proper management and a solid team structure, and we're missing out on this whole group. We're limiting ourselves by setting up too high individual standards for these young players, while our team structure is decaying more and more, season by season.

serghei said:

Anyway, this whole talk can be simplified in a couple of sentences. In my opinion, it is not only the job of the player to make his way at a new club in bad conditions. The clubs is equally responsible to ensure the proper conditions are met, so that the player can naturally move up a level. Or else, players will stagnate, or even worse, decline.

It seems to be based on your comments, if I'm not misinterpreting them, that you put this weight almost exclusively on the younger players. If we keep this mentality, that the younger players have to somehow force their way into a team that is catering only to veterans and amigos, then we'll waste years and a lot of money, and will still get nowhere.

To sum up, I believe that can happen with some players, but there are talented players who could make it with proper management and a solid team structure, and we're missing out on this whole segment.

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My original point in more simplified words:
-Every coach who comes here, are asked to win by the board.
-Right now, we have very few younger players who can contribute to winning more than the veterans.
-This isn't the problem of the veterans, nor really the problem of the coach.

Setien has no alternatives here tbf with him (and I am one of the first to be against him)
Who is currently in the club who is superior starter than Suarez? Pique?Alba?
Only debatable players are in midfield, and those are 2 maximum.
This is a result of the board above anything else. They handed old squad to the managers and brought younger players who really didn't fit in the club (whether it is their style or level)

khaled_a_d said:

My original point in more simplified words:
-Every coach who comes here, are asked to win by the board.
-Right now, we have very few younger players who can contribute to winning more than the veterans.
-This isn't the problem of the veterans, nor really the problem of the coach.

Setien has no alternatives here tbf with him (and I am one of the first to be against him)
Who is currently in the club who is superior starter than Suarez? Pique?Alba?
Only debatable players are in midfield, and those are 2 maximum.
This is a result of the board above anything else. They handed old squad to the managers and brought younger players who really didn't fit in the club (whether it is their style or level)

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We'll win nothing this season with this approach probably. And next season it will probably be no La Liga and no CL as well. This approach is starting to be a losing one.

You do realise that your team playing this sterile way was 135 minutes away from winning the CL and yet you lot have shat on the manager who put this shitshow of a squad in that position? Winning trophies is not the measure of this project being successful. The only real goal of this generation and this squad that is regularly being talked about on this forum is 'get Messi yet another CL'. Do you not see how that's the real devil?

The sole fact you talk yourself into circles putting the responsibility for state of things on the manager who's magically supposed to 'make this work better than it does' and pretending that it can is the real issue. The blame shifting, the denial and expectancy that a superstar manager will make Bartomeu give him a bigger slice of the power-pie and automatically make him suddenly make smart decisions

He looks out of his depth and already drained out of ideas, looks like a hopeless soul on the touchline.

Setien has his cool Armani shirt tonight. Prepare to be entertained

Cool said:

He looks out of his depth and already drained out of ideas, looks like a hopeless soul on the touchline.

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At this point. It's not the coach it's the players. This is probably all we can get out of this team.

malvolio said:

Setien has his cool Armani shirt tonight. Prepare to be entertained

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It's a Chinese knock-off. Arnani.

sorry to say but setien is a fraud. all the talk about youth when he started yet he doesnt use any. we literally have no wingers and he refuses to use ansu / collado, but will gladly sub in rakitic.
all teams know we have nothing on the wings and are clogging the middle. sorry but he can fuckoff back to watching the cows

I thought he was supposed to be tactical genius? How can someone play chess so well but come up no strategies to improve the game play? We look worse than we looked few months ago.

@DonAK called it first.

@serghei, I'm sorry man.

the only manager in football right now capable of breaking up the player power at the club is Mourinho

the question has to be asked: why is a top club like Barca hiring average manager after average manager?

All that hype and bluster for nothing. Just as subservient to the seniors as EV, but far more tactically naive. Said at the time sacking EV mid-season would prove to be a mistake and regrettably it has. Setien took over a club at the top of the table in the league, still in the Copa del Rey and undefeated in the CL group stages to a likely trophyless season. Impressive stuff.

Givenchy said:

the only manager in football right now capable of breaking up the player power at the club is Mourinho

the question has to be asked: why is a top club like Barca hiring average manager after average manager?

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He's also capable of breaking up the club itself.

Would not let him anywhere near.

KingLeo10 said:

@DonAK called it first.

@serghei, I'm sorry man.

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Called what?