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Thread: Quique Setién

  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeRomeno View Post
    I think there is a general misconception of what attacking football is. Attacking football does not mean tiki taka, those are 2 different things. I dont know anyone who would not enjoy attacking football among my friends (who are fans of various clubs), but i know alot of people who consider tiki-taka extremely boring, not to mention not that efficient those days. Football evolves constantly.
    I have an issue with being possession possessed. If you look at teams who have won CL in recent years, Liverpool, Real etc, none of the clubs care about possession, but they are all attacking teams. Klopp can easily allow his team sit in defense, but once they get the ball (which they often do due to excellent pressing), they are like chasing dogs after rabbit. I have stated this before and i am stating it now as well. Luchos treble winning side was for me the most enjoyable football Barcelona has played, not Peps Barca. Because they were direct, hungry, packed with speed and lots of skill and with only 1 goal, to score and win games. They are not afraid to shoot the ball from distance, they are very quick in transition from defense to attack if needed and they dont necessarily need to walk the ball into goal. What you need for this to actually execute though, is correct combination of youth and experience and technical and fast players. All those teams i previously mentioned had the same quality.
    Klopps team has attack trio in their prime years (25-28), who are all gifted technically but also fast and great on ball. Very similar to what Luchos Barca had in MSN, then mixed energy and technical ability in midfield and endlessly energic full-backs, packed with strong defenders, who could pass the ball under pressure.
    Now lets look at our squad. Only forward we have who would somewhat go under this category is Griez, rest are too young and unexperienced (Fati, Dembele, Perez) or too old (Messi, Suarez). 4 out of our 6 midfielders are 31-32 and probably not capable of pressing entire game and then we have Arthur who obviously has some fitness health issues and De Jong, who seems to be overplayed, etc. I do not see how we can expect glorious things from this squad unless a dramatic reshape is done, lets hope Setien is the guy who can deliver it.
    I also don't necessarily associate playing attacking football with tiki-taka especially if it's like we played under Tata or even Tito, where the primary object was to keep the ball but doing nothing meaningful with it. I also consider Liverpool to be playing nice football, even though they're not obsessed with possession. But the way the press when the ball is lost, they aim to get the ball back right away, it automatically gives you the majority of possession, I remember just the other day, when I was watching one of their games and they had like 80% possession without even focusing on that, but every and all the time, when they had the ball, they were dangerous to score. So yes, it's about possession, but it's more about that being the consequence of good pressing, even gegen-press style which allows you to not give your opponent room to breathe and to keep the ball for longer than a few seconds. And offensively, it's about looking and thinking forward, always be on the lookout for that killer pass or shot, not aimlessly keeping the ball for the sake of possession. And we certainly never did that under Pep, we were very direct right after we got the ball back, even though you say you didn't like our style then as much as you did Lucho, when we were basically more of a counter attacking team. Like under Pep, like Liverpool now, high possession was/is a by product of doing everything else right, being direct and effective with the ball and being relentless off it.
    Last edited by gregorrin10; 15th January 2020 at 11:47 AM.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeRomeno View Post
    I think there is a general misconception of what attacking football is. Attacking football does not mean tiki taka, those are 2 different things. I dont know anyone who would not enjoy attacking football among my friends (who are fans of various clubs), but i know alot of people who consider tiki-taka extremely boring, not to mention not that efficient those days. Football evolves constantly.
    I have an issue with being possession possessed. If you look at teams who have won CL in recent years, Liverpool, Real etc, none of the clubs care about possession, but they are all attacking teams. Klopp can easily allow his team sit in defense, but once they get the ball (which they often do due to excellent pressing), they are like chasing dogs after rabbit. I have stated this before and i am stating it now as well. Luchos treble winning side was for me the most enjoyable football Barcelona has played, not Peps Barca. Because they were direct, hungry, packed with speed and lots of skill and with only 1 goal, to score and win games. They are not afraid to shoot the ball from distance, they are very quick in transition from defense to attack if needed and they dont necessarily need to walk the ball into goal. What you need for this to actually execute though, is correct combination of youth and experience and technical and fast players. All those teams i previously mentioned had the same quality.
    Klopps team has attack trio in their prime years (25-28), who are all gifted technically but also fast and great on ball. Very similar to what Luchos Barca had in MSN, then mixed energy and technical ability in midfield and endlessly energic full-backs, packed with strong defenders, who could pass the ball under pressure.
    Now lets look at our squad. Only forward we have who would somewhat go under this category is Griez, rest are too young and unexperienced (Fati, Dembele, Perez) or too old (Messi, Suarez). 4 out of our 6 midfielders are 31-32 and probably not capable of pressing entire game and then we have Arthur who obviously has some fitness health issues and De Jong, who seems to be overplayed, etc. I do not see how we can expect glorious things from this squad unless a dramatic reshape is done, lets hope Setien is the guy who can deliver it.
    Very good post, although I do think Pep's Barca from 09-11 were quite direct when they needed to be especially when they had Henry,Eto'o and later on Villa. However, the success of tiki-taka seemed to drown out all the other successful elements of those teams and by 11/12 season we were cramming in 5 or so midfielders into a line up all with similar physicality and attributes. Pressing lost intensity, the possession game slowed down and become predictable also powerful players e.g Henry,Eto'o, Toure were gone.

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    Attacking football doesn't need to be tiki taka. However, what we were doing under Valverde was most certainly not attacking football in any way, shape or form.
    Zehahahahahahahaha


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    Can setian handle the dressing room , can he impose his idea to the board and big players , can he bench pique or busquet or other star , i don't think so , setian looks humble and nice guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barcaman View Post
    Don't care how people become fans. I thought Stojkovic (former Yugoslavian player) played for Barca only to find out it was Stoichkov

    But I saw Barca because of it and I liked it. Ronaldinho re-ignited my interest as well and that was the beginning of Barca forums and internet, streams, etc.
    When I was young 20 years ago I was misguided and was supporting Zidane and Ronaldo because I loved their football. I became a Barca fan in the first year of Ronaldinho .. I was mesmerized

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    I doubt there can be any misconception after watching Valverde's two years of slow, sterile, dull, conservative sideways passing possession based defensive football

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    Quote Originally Posted by gun-powder View Post
    Can setian handle the dressing room , can he impose his idea to the board and big players , can he bench pique or busquet or other star , i don't think so , setian looks humble and nice guy
    He came into blows with the Board at his old clubs many times, even what got him fired at Betis in the end, he may look humble and harmless, but no mistake, he demands football is played his way, how he sees it, how he thinks should be played. And he wants players who can play his way. And his philosophy is drawing inspiration from Cruyff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall D Teach View Post
    Attacking football doesn't need to be tiki taka. However, what we were doing under Valverde was most certainly not attacking football in any way, shape or form.
    It was borefest. Valverde had no creativity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall D Teach View Post
    ......what we were doing under Valverde was most certainly not attacking football in any way, shape or form.
    While I agree, with your observation, there was no easy way out for EV at the later stages. It was a result of his own mis/non-management, plus power shift in the lockerroom, that he could not reverse.

    If the players decide/influence what to do, because "Amigos" have the say on the pitch or at least a veto, they end up with low intensity training in the end and then they will lack stamnia and legs. On top of this, most our midfielders players are old and not creative playmakers-materminds, (although busi and raki have moments of excellent deep passing!), so no suprise the training in Sep, when Messi came back the tactical message and what they trainied was "When you have the ball, give it Leo"

    So you cant easily play offensive with "this" team. So despite my initial uncertenty, I think Setien is headding into the a better direction. We'll see if his changes are too drastic and intense and the team turns against him and forces him to give in.
    If you observe something that does not make sense, remember: it's all about the dough!

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    Keeping the ball is exactly what this squad is highly capable of. Of course we should be moving towards a more possession based game. Not keeping the ball for the sake of it but who suggested that anyway? Of course we expect goals to come from holding onto the ball and quickly transitioning from defence - midfield - attack. Frenkie for me is an ideal type player for this sort of system. We still kept the ball under valverde we just did nothing with it unless Messi could muster up something.

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    I really hope that Setien injects some movement during the attacking phase and some more directness. Without being direct, we have no chance in CL.

    I understand that our squad is old. However, with the right mix of players a coach who can teach positional awareness (something Valverde was dredful at) and using Messi as added value opposed to do everything man in the final third, I think we can still do it.
    y M
    No, we are not capable of playing "Heavy Metal" football of Klopp with this team. But we can stil perform so much better than we have in the first half of this season.
    The suffering is over.

    Onwards and forwards.

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCBfan22 View Post
    I really hope that Setien injects some movement during the attacking phase and some more directness. Without being direct, we have no chance in CL.

    I understand that our squad is old. However, with the right mix of players a coach who can teach positional awareness (something Valverde was dredful at) and using Messi as added value opposed to do everything man in the final third, I think we can still do it.
    y M
    No, we are not capable of playing "Heavy Metal" football of Klopp with this team. But we can stil perform so much better than we have in the first half of this season.
    +1 team was static as fuck under Valverde. Like 11 cardboard cutouts at times when we was attacking... want to see some movement off the ball and I believe Setien can address this.
    #Siiiiiiiiuuuuu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    Keeping the ball is exactly what this squad is highly capable of. Of course we should be moving towards a more possession based game. Not keeping the ball for the sake of it but who suggested that anyway? Of course we expect goals to come from holding onto the ball and quickly transitioning from defence - midfield - attack. Frenkie for me is an ideal type player for this sort of system. We still kept the ball under valverde we just did nothing with it unless Messi could muster up something.
    That's the million dollar question. If people were pining for meaningless possession based football , then why were so many members on this forum against Valverde ? I don't think I have ever seen a Barca fan label Lucho's 2015 year as "boring" , because Barca was quicker with driving the ball forward and alot more direct when they had the ball under him.

    I honestly dont get the point of his post either , this LeeRomeno guy went MIA after the Roma disaster after he was stanning Valverde and he pops up with this post as if we were saying that the only way you can play entertaining football is with tiki-taka.

    It it what it is. Day 2 with Barca being Valverditis free.
    Last edited by messi2140; 15th January 2020 at 01:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Valverde cheerleader in his natural habitat View Post
    Good, let them win the overrated CL and we'll continue to dominate La Liga.
    Quote Originally Posted by FCB1987 View Post
    CNN is probably the most reliable source of news

    #factsfirst
    Valverde: "I don't think about resigning and I don't feel like players have failed me."

    Valverde: "This is football. It costs us and it costs the whole world."

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    Incredible speed and intensity.
    Puyol #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall D Teach View Post
    Attacking football doesn't need to be tiki taka. However, what we were doing under Valverde was most certainly not attacking football in any way, shape or form.
    For last year or so yes, but not in the first year, even if you look at stats about chances created, shots and goals, we were top of Europe, but not anymore, over the time the style became more conservative and safe. I think Valverde as very pragmatic coach realized he is in no power in making his players press, so his idea was to save the legs of the players as much as possible over the course of games and year, which means sideways passing and making opponents chase the ball and then decide at last 20-30 minutes of the game. Or incase of early lead, hold it.
    In any case Valverdes style was pretty dramatic change from Luchos one, which fixed some of the issues (we no longer lost at games like Anoeta away, dominated Real etc), but on the other hand instead of trying to do the generational switch and start changing his lineup, he kept going back to using the old guard, which over the course of 2,5 seasons meant becoming even more passive and slower. This season i read some stats that Barcelona was the most overachieving football team in top 5 leagues, we should have had 15 less points in La Liga, when checking XG stats. This indeed shows we have had really good conversion rate from Messi and Suarez and safe hands from Ter Stegen. But it was not the case from the beginning. So as i stated, Valverdes time should have ended after Copa loss and Anfield, but he was not the soul crushing evil responsible of end of world. Not to mention i have definitely seen much worse football played by Barcelona.