Erling Braut Haaland

BBZ8800 said:

Go back to a no9.
Go back to a simpler, faster and a more versatile style with more direct passes, long balls, crosses, headers, longshots.

Click to expand...

You know that Martinez scored more headers than Haaland this season? How each player handles high balls is a night and day difference as well, with Martinez being far superior. Heck, Inters gameplan is pretty much to punt the ball in his general direction and have him win the duels. By your logic Haaland is incredibly one dimensional, all his goals are exact copies.

But truth be told, Haaland scores more goals. Thats it, dont pretend there are any other arguments for him (apart from transfer fee if you care for that). And to be fair thats a massive advantage, but in every other aspect of the game Lautaro is the far superior talent. I am just tired of bullshit arguments and comparing Lautaro to Griezmann xD

Its not like us going for Lautaro is some kind of Guardiolaesque fever dream. He has some good arguments going for him. I wouldnt mind either, Haaland or Martinez, though.

Porque said:

Absolutely. But isn't Suarez that kind of 9? It is just that he has got old. So we didn't really abandon the classic 9.

But say we go wit Lautaro. Then maybe we should look for a better version of Paulinho in midfield to arrive from the second line and score goals. Setien has already made Frenkie arrive into ST when Messi goes deep. But he doesn't have the striking acumen.

How about Havertz? Probably the most vertical goalscoring midfielder at the moment outside of Bruno Fernandes.

Click to expand...

Havertz is a great player who is a great space invader + can create aswell. Haaland, Havertz, a touchline winger and a run in behind winger + players in the mold of Frenkie in the midfield is a recipe to great succes when Messi retires.

Martinez is a 'no 9'.

He has can play with Messi in tight areas, can play with back to goal, is strong and attacks ball well in box.

The fact he is playing in a two and drops deeper is a positive he can play that way also but he has everything to lead the line AND drop deeper if needed.

111m is too much for what he has shown and that wont be paid but this idea he is a second striker only is miles off it.

JamDav1982 said:

Martinez is a 'no 9'.

He has can play with Messi in tight areas, can play with back to goal, is strong and attacks ball well in box.

The fact he is playing in a two and drops deeper is a positive he can play that way also but he has everything to lead the line AND drop deeper if needed.

111m is too much for what he has shown and that wont be paid but this idea he is a second striker only is miles off it.

Click to expand...

He is 5 foot 9. Call me old fashioned but we are not winning champions league with a striker like that leading the line

Messigician said:

He is 5 foot 9. Call me old fashioned but we are not winning champions league with a striker like that leading the line

Click to expand...

I’m far from a Martinez fan, think he’s way overpriced and don’t want him here but the height of a player is one of the weakest arguments going. Let’s buy a tall striker like Zlatan so we’ll win the CL like we did with him.. oh wait....

Vilarrubi said:

I?m far from a Martinez fan, think he?s way overpriced and don?t want him here but the height of a player is one of the weakest arguments going. Let?s buy a tall striker like Zlatan so we?ll win the CL like we did with him.. oh wait....

Click to expand...

Pep hated zlatan, imo he was the perfect striker for us, and the missing piece.

Height is fairly important for leading the line there's a reason players like Lewandoski, Kane, Drogba, Suarez etc are so dominant. Diminutive forwards not named Messi are kinda meh see Aguero Insigne Mertens etc

Messigician said:

Pep hated zlatan, imo he was the perfect striker for us, and the missing piece.

Height is fairly important for leading the line there's a reason players like Lewandoski, Kane, Drogba, Suarez etc are so dominant. Diminutive forwards not named Messi are kinda meh see Aguero Insigne Mertens etc

Click to expand...

what dominant means? how is kane dominant and aguero meh? maybe we should play pique as a striker or buy fellaini to be more dominant...

Porque said:

Absolutely. But isn't Suarez that kind of 9? It is just that he has got old. So we didn't really abandon the classic 9.

But say we go wit Lautaro. Then maybe we should look for a better version of Paulinho in midfield to arrive from the second line and score goals. Setien has already made Frenkie arrive into ST when Messi goes deep. But he doesn't have the striking acumen.

How about Havertz? Probably the most vertical goalscoring midfielder at the moment outside of Bruno Fernandes.

Click to expand...

Suarez is a no9.
But in terms of overal tactics we turned into Pep's mindset.

Before and after 2008:
Long balls
Before Pep: yes
After Pep: abandoned. Every action is turned into: slow down, play triangles, don't lose the ball. If we lose the ball, Pep will kill you right away.

Crosses:
A similar story.
Abandoned for possession till death with short, mobile midfielders.

Long shots from outside of a box:
Abandoned.
Why?
Well, if you shoot from range, you will lose the ball.
And Pep doesn't like to lose the ball.
He will rather pass it around the box for 20 minutes and wait for a perfect moment to shoot than try a riskier shot here and there.

Crosses into a box after corners and set pieces.
Abandoned?
Why?
Because Pep turned us into possession till death merchants where risks and several different attacking options are not welcomed.
Pep likes to have only 1 option and play that option till death.
Plus, we lost a lot in attacking height after Pep.
From 180 Ronnie, 181 Etoo and 175 Larsson to Messi, Villa, Pedro, Alexis, Bojan, Tello, Fabregas in the attack.
Should I even mention attackers like Rivaldo, Kluivert, Giovanni from 2000s who were all 186-190cm tall?

So, Suarez is a no9.
But so many things have changed since 2008.

Some people will offer a stupid reply like: but it brought us the biggest success.

Well, we had Messi-Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Alves.

My point: if you have those players, play Pep style.
If you don't have perfect players, than that style will be a huge failure (look at Pep in Europe without Messi).
So, if you don't have those players=go back to a good, old, simpler and more versatile type of football.
Like pre-Pep.

Now, imagine an attack: Griezz, Lautaro, Messi.
You can't play long balls, since they are short.
Lautaro has a physique like Coutinho.
Messi and Griezz are midgets also.

Crosses? The same
Corners? The same
Through balls to slow Messi and Griezz? Lol

So, what is the only option with these players?
= slow, granny Eernieball and passing the ball around a box till death.

Messigician said:

Pep hated zlatan, imo he was the perfect striker for us, and the missing piece.

Height is fairly important for leading the line there's a reason players like Lewandoski, Kane, Drogba, Suarez etc are so dominant. Diminutive forwards not named Messi are kinda meh see Aguero Insigne Mertens etc

Click to expand...

We won a CL either side of that season without a tall striker.

Yeah, that’s why Suarez has been using his height in the CL in the last 5 years to “lead the line”......

I’m against Martinez signing but like I said before, his height is a non factor. We’re not going to start crossing any time soon either.

Vilarrubi said:

I?m far from a Martinez fan, think he?s way overpriced and don?t want him here but the height of a player is one of the weakest arguments going. Let?s buy a tall striker like Zlatan so we?ll win the CL like we did with him.. oh wait....

Click to expand...

It is extremely hard to find a team without Messi in their lineup who managed to win a CL with a physically weak and short No9.

Liverpool 2019, Firmino 181cm
Real 2014, 16, 17, 18, Cr7 187cm
Bayern 2013, Mandzukic 190cm
Chelsea 2012, Drogba 188cm
Inter 2010, Milito 183cm

Basically, the last time a team without Messi won a CL without a classical phsyical no9 was Man utd in 2008 with Rooney and Tevez. But they still had Cr7 though...

Not to mention:
Wc 2018 France, Giroud
Euro 2016, Portugal, CR7

There is a very strong logical and statistical reason why teams with short Cfs struggle in semis and finals.

So, what is a strongest argument:
1) Barca failed with Ibra
2) all teams in Europe failing year after year without a classical, tall no9 killer

About Ibra, Pep has a fetish on light, mobile forwards.
Bojan, Alexis, Jesus, Aguero.
It is pointless to discuss about Ibra and Pep.
No tall player will ever be a good fit under Pep.
Pep wants to field 11 carbon copies of Iniesta/David Silva, move, play triangles till death.
If it works=fine.
If not=run away to even richer club and repeat the same stubborn pattern till death.

You have such a simplistic view of football

If tall strikers is the end-all be-all, why did no team win CL with Zlatan?

Morten said:

If tall strikers is the end-all be-all, why did no team win CL with Zlatan?

Click to expand...

What do you mean? Zlatan won multiple CL titles. Tall, athletic strikers like him are the recipe for success in the Champions League and against parked buses.

DonAK said:

Zlatan won multiple CL titles.

Click to expand...

when?

Yannik said:

when?

Click to expand...

He's ironic.

I also agree height is not that important. What matters is for the player to have killer instinct in front of goal. Suarez is old, but he is still a killer in front of goal, he just lacks the legs to be as intense and as fast as he was.

So, no9 should be:

- fast, but not necessarily as fast as a winger, because he plays closer to the goal
- top finisher
- top movement
- good in tight spaces
- good in physical contacts since he usually has to play with center-backs breaking down his neck.

- great link-up play is a bonus, but few strikers even among the top ones are as good passers as they are shooters.