Ernesto Valverde

DonAK said:

@BBZ8800

Just stop it dude. Only a couple of months ago you claimed Messi was a worse player than Rakitic in the CL last season and had a bigger share of the blame for us not winning that competition.

Why cannot you just see that Valverde has been average? Even if we forget about the style of play, the dumb decisions he's taken in back to back seasons is disgraceful.

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You know my opinion of random comments not related to a topic to undermine a value of a poster.

So, I said something wrong or whatever.
You had faith in Dumbele for 2 years.

That makes us 2 idiots then, based on a random post/mistake from a past.
Nobody should read yours or mine posts then, tbf.

Regarding a current topic, look outside of a box.
EV is average. I still wouldn't say that he is bad, since I have seen waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse coaches in our team in the last 25 years.
But you guys suffer from a disease where you simplify things and point fingers only at one guy/one problem.
And when that problem is solved, everything will be fine.

You can sack EV tomorrow, Messi, Suarez, Pique, Busi, Raki, Vidal, Alba are still old horses who can't be motivated too much and who are old and slow.
Younger players with a few rare exceptions are mostly average.

My posts are not about defending EV.
But about:
1. looking a bigger picture
2. and somewhat a revolt towards dumbing down/simplifying the game and scapegoating

I still think that this team would play quite shit (eye test) and have shitty results (titles and stats) over 12 Months even with 3 Peps on a bench.

BBZ8800 said:

You know my opinion of random comments not related to a topic to undermine a value of a poster.

So, I said something wrong or whatever.
You had faith in Dumbele for 2 years.

That makes us 2 idiots then, based on a random post/mistake from a past.
Nobody should read yours or mine posts then, tbf.

Regarding a current topic, look outside of a box.
EV is average. I still wouldn't say that he is bad, since I have seen waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse coaches in our team in the last 25 years.
But you guys suffer from a disease where you simplify things and point fingers only at one guy/one problem.
And when that problem is solved, everything will be fine.

You can sack EV tomorrow, Messi, Suarez, Pique, Busi, Raki, Vidal, Alba are still old horses who can't be motivated too much and who are old and slow.
Younger players with a few rare exceptions are mostly average.

My posts are not about defending EV.
But about:
1. looking a bigger picture
2. and somewhat a revolt towards dumbing down/simplifying the game and scapegoating

I still think that this team would play quite shit and have shitty results over 12 Months even with 3 Peps on a bench.

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I'm wrong a lot, but you seem to make certain comments just to be a contrarian or to defend a player or coach you rate so much that you're willing to bring down players that are actually doing well, to the point where you're nitpicking everything they do.

And when said players or coaches are doing well, you disappear completely from their threads.

When I do that, and go on long posts nitpicking everything and making outrageous claims such as "Rakitic was better than Messi in the CL this year", then you can talk about you and me being the same.

You're right about one thing though. Some of the players are underperforming or on the wrong side of 30. But one of the reasons they're underperforming and why they keep getting away with it, playing every single game, that's something you choose to ignore completely.

Messi and Vidal sure as hell looked motivated vs Liverpool last year. Maybe we could have had a chance had Ernie here not played the same lineup and chosen to bench Arthur just so his favorite Rakitic could start again.

Oh wait, not Valverde's fault for repeating the same lineup that showed some obvious flaws at home vs a Liverpool side that missed several chances in a game Messi won for us almost singlehandedly.

BBZ8800 said:

You know my opinion of random comments not related to a topic to undermine a value of a poster.
EV is average. I still wouldn't say that he is bad, since I have seen waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse coaches in our team in the last 25 years.

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See, this is why Valverde doesnt keep me up at night as it does with some people. We could have a better coach, I always acknowledged that. But I feel like some people have never seen how destructive a bad coach can be. Then you have the coaches that start out well, people then opt this is the coach that should have been coaching Barca, only to fall apart the second month by having lost the locker room or tactics falling apart.

Horatio said:

See, this is why Valverde doesnt keep me up at night as it does with some people. We could have a better coach, I always acknowledged that. But I feel like some people have never seen how destructive a bad coach can be. Then you have the coaches that start out well, people then opt this is the coach that should have been coaching Barca, only to fall apart the second month by having lost the locker room or tactics falling apart.

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You don't settle for mediocrity just because a potential successor could be worse. You especially don't settle for mediocrity after how we've gotten KOed in the CL back to back season in similar fashion.

That's a pretty poor argument in the first place. Barca had worse coaches in the past, but they also had far worse squads.

If we used that reasoning in the past neither Frank Rijkaard or Pep Guardiola would have gotten hired.

DonAK said:

You don't settle for mediocrity just because a potential successor could be worse. You especially don't settle for mediocrity after how we've gotten KOed in the CL back to back season in similar fashion.

That's a pretty poor argument in the first place. Barca had worse coaches in the past, but they also had far worse squads.

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Worse squads, maybe? But it is not like past seasons squad were without issues. Lack of pace was a huge one and on some positions we dont have the technically gifted players we’d like to see. This seasons squad has a higher potential in terms of playing attractive football. I expect Valverde to act accordingly. Will be heavily disappointed if not.

I have plenty of expectations. But to me what we see on the pitch doesn’t come down solely to the coach. Player material, personalities, local league development vs other leagues, luck factor etc.

Horatio said:

Worse squads, maybe? But it is not like past seasons squad were without issues. Lack of pace was a huge one and on some positions we dont have the technically gifted players we’d like to see. This seasons squad has a higher potential in terms of playing attractive football. I expect Valverde to act accordingly. Will be heavily disappointed if not.

I have plenty of expectations. But to me what we see on the pitch doesn’t come down solely to the coach. Player material, personalities, local league development vs other leagues, luck factor etc.

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Sure, but do you think choosing the exact same team vs Liverpool in the return leg, the same team that struggled vs the Liverpool press, wasn't down to the coach?

Do you think leaving out Arthur to play Rakitic or Vidal who struggled to beat the Liverpool press at home would work away at Anfield? Isn't that down to the coach?

Using Sergi Roberto at RB when he's getting beat defensively time after time and leaving Semedo on the bench, who's not great, but better defensively and faster to keep up with Liverpool's pace up front, isn't that down to the coach?

Is nothing Valverde's fault? If a manager chooses to ignore the warning signs in front of him, chooses to keep playing those "demotivated" players, it's the manager's fault if it goes badly in a big, high pressure game.

I mean for god's sake, this is the same guy whose first option off the bench vs Roma was Andre freaking Gomes.

Valverde keep speaking about football giving you second chances, he got one and made yet another boneheaded decision after the other and watched it slip past him.

DonAK said:

Sure, but do you think choosing the exact same team vs Liverpool in the return leg, the same team that struggled vs the Liverpool press, wasn't down to the coach?

Do you think leaving out Arthur to play Rakitic or Vidal who struggled to beat the Liverpool press at home would work away at Anfield? Isn't that down to the coach?

Continually using Sergi Roberto at RB when he's getting beat defensively time after time and leaving Semedo on the bench, who's not great, but better defensively and faster to keep up with Liverpool's pace up front, isn't that down to the coach?

Why all the excuses?

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Less than optimal decisions are made all the time by all coaches. Difference is, team wins the game and no foul was done.
Valverde lost the game and all blame befell upon him. With or without Arthur, players have no excuse for that performance. And no, I don’t clear Valverde of blame but this wasnt just on him. Our team with that experience, nobody stepping up...disgrace. Our team misses players with fighting spirit or hunger. Thats another issue. Frenkie has it, but might not be enough.

Horatio said:

Less than optimal decisions are made all the time by all coaches. Difference is, team wins the game and no foul was done.
Valverde lost the game and all blame befell upon him. With or without Arthur, players have no excuse for that performance. And no, I don’t clear Valverde of blame but this wasnt just on him. Our team with that experience, nobody stepping up...disgrace.

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If it happens once, sure, but if it happens again it's not only on the players and Valverde's management has some serious flaws that will cost us down the road.

I'm not confident he's learned his lesson. Perhaps third time's the charm, but who knows with this guy.

DonAK said:

If it happens once, sure, but if it happens again it's not only on the players and Valverde's management has some serious flaws that will cost us down the road.

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This is Valverde’s last season probably anyway. Just hope the team gets guided enough along the line for whoever comes next to pick it up. But at least I know this coach won’t leave Barca in shambles at end of season.

If he picked up enough trophies along the way and weeded the team from the players not good enough in the meantime I think he did a decent job.

Perso, I can see myself being pals with the Valv. Seems like a likeable dude haha Flame me

I was asking for the Sayoonara send-off after Roma though. Unless he came up with some really convincing and inspiring arguments in the post-game pow wow. And even then, herbs in da smoke pipe would've needed to be pretty pretty maaaagic.

Why? cuz it's a public office and head's gotta roll, seppuku style / and also, cuz he didn't improve my fav players /
and also, cuz it's a crime not to play attacking football when you've got THE BEST attacking player in the history of da game

But the one I blame even b4 him is this stupid guy for not signing a top midfield post xaviniesta and the sap way they treated Alves. And giving these stupid extensions to the vets! In fact, meesa a visionary hehe I was asking for complete squad overhaul years ago

Lucho was the man. Still is, and my heart's with him.

Not a fan of Pep. Guy was a complete 2-faced A-hole with Zlatan and Eto'o.

If we could get any of Klopp, Bielsa, Sarri or Renard, I'd be sooooo happy. Even Tuchel who's hated in Paris.

Klopp or Koeman one day pls.

Horatio said:

If he picked up enough trophies along the way and weeded the team from the players not good enough in the meantime I think he did a decent job.

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Decent job is the best description one can attribute to Valverde's tenure. Anything more than that and we're dealing with delusion here.

And about Liverpool, that is firstly a managerial failure of the highest order, one of the biggest I've seen at this level. He basically set out the team playing exactly the game Liverpool needed Barca to play to have a chance of overturning what was a terrible score on Camp Nou. Like even if Valverde tried to get more things wrong in that game he couldn't have done it. And the worst thing is that Liverpool warned him about his approach in the first leg when they created chances at will. He was warned about how poor Roberto is at securing his flank against pacy players. Had this issue last year with Willian on Camp Nou too. It repeated with Mane. He was warned Rakitic can't deal with the pressure. He was warned you can't sit back and absorb pressure form a side that aggressive. We are barely able to sit back against Eibar in La Liga and we can't even keep them from having many chances.

Man is okay for La Liga. Massively out of his depth against the best sides in Europe. For a side at which domestic success is not enough, Valverde is a really bad manager.

This season is EV's last chance to redeem himself to some extent. Of course nothing will redeem the two CL humiliations, but if he can establish Arthur-De Jong as the starting midfield as well as giving Fati minutes here and there with us winning La Liga and Copa, I think he will have done an ok job. Not expecting to win the CL with him in charge obviously. Just needs to forget about his darling midfield in Rakitic-Vidal-Busi. The next manager can start from there.

Valverde the manager in the Champions League has weaknesses in all three main areas of coaching. This is why he won't be able to lead this side to a Champions League win. He has a weak mentality, he is bad at managing the squad, and his tactics are terrible. So far, he is showing this season that he can improve the 2nd aspect, in the sense that he is starting to play the right players, so I can admit and say I've seen improvements here. Better late than never I guess.

But he will never change his mentality, it is too ingrained in him. And I don't see how he could magically acquire a football vision he just doesn't have. Being a Barcelona manager ain't easy.

Horatio said:

Less than optimal decisions are made all the time by all coaches. Difference is, team wins the game and no foul was done.
Valverde lost the game and all blame befell upon him. With or without Arthur, players have no excuse for that performance. And no, I don’t clear Valverde of blame but this wasnt just on him. Our team with that experience, nobody stepping up...disgrace. Our team misses players with fighting spirit or hunger. Thats another issue. Frenkie has it, but might not be enough.

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I would say - the players were kind of caught up in the moment and scared; You could see the fear in their faces as soon as we conceded a goal after that stupid Alba's mistake. Now, that sort of shit might occur to anybody, irrespective of their experience! Especially after you were humiliated not too long ago!!

It was definitely the manager's job to not let that feeling escalate! Not only had the dumb fuck chosen a terribly wrong line-up, but he also did not do ANYTHING to deal with that psychological issue!