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Thread: Retardo

  1. #1726

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    And i say we will play better with a proper coach.
    You are always talking about the players. Apart from the disgusting bullshit u are talking about some players who is responsable for buying players? The coach has nothing to say in this regard?? In which world are u living??
    Klopp,Pep etc created their team themself. Valverde is in his third season. He didnt creat, he just destroyed. Maybe not alone but he has his big part.
    For example he wanted Cou but was he able to integrate him here? No. Funny thing is, he wants players but has no real idea where to position them.
    If i want a plyer for 100mil i have a good idea where i want him in my team and dont start trying a 1000 things when he is here. And that counts for almost all players we bought under valverde.

    There is absolute no concept in his team creation.
    Play a player 3 times from beginning the throw him basically out of the team. Suddenly bench players who played well.
    Constantly shifting players positions. Play them in positions where they are uncomfortable or at least dont play at their optimum.

    I mean we can maybe not play like Liverpool with our current
    Team but we can play definately fast then now. A good coach can at least make his players move more.
    The poorest guy in our team ia actually the one with the ball. Everyone else is just looking.
    There were several times in our last match when frenkie had the ball and was waving his hands cause nobody was moving or free.
    The same goes for semedos and Arthur many backpasses. They all go down to the same problem. Lack of player movement.
    And thats the difference to our posession play in the past. Its slow as hell and only in a line not forward. No triangles.
    That my friend has othing to do with some players getting older. They should still be able to.move more and not to run fast as light.

    The coach has to make them feel more uncomfortable when getting lazy. Why not putting all this underperdorming midfileders on the bench and give people like puig a chance fir example.

    Finally i stand by the point. The biggest problem right now is our coach. I mean look at him. No emotions on the sideline, no soul like our team....

  2. #1727
    JohnN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Ok, guys, but...
    Remember when Pep came to Bayern and people said that he can't play as good as at Barca because he doesn't have the right players.
    Bayern's players didn't have Barca's DNA for the right type of movement, understanding and natural instincts where to move, when to pass etc.

    So, my point: you can't turn ANY set of players into ANY tactics/system.
    I know, people will reply: we don't have any system.

    But still, our current set of players are built only for playing slow-ass static possession game.
    Busi is slow.
    Arthur is slow and counters aren't in his blood.
    Frenkie can play faster.
    Messi doesn't move off the ball, he will be 33 at the end of a season, he is (as every human) slower and slower each season. He is not a winger but a hybrid player who likes to play in the middle.
    Suarez will be soon 33, slow, horrible first touch. He can rarely move into an open space.
    Griezmann, another turtle in attack. Offers zero space and zero aerial threat.
    Rakitic, slow like granny.
    Vidal, not slow, but a very weird player in terms of movement and 1-touch passes.
    RB Roberto, well he can (in theory) get into an open space, but he is always doing it very rarely and not consistently.
    Semedo, I can't call him a footballer due to his non existent attacking skills.
    Alba, he can move into an open space.

    Now, these things mentioned above are objective things.
    Not related with who is a coach.
    So, regardless if a coach is Klopp, EV or Raki's wife=in all cases Raki and Busi will be slow-ass-granny-turtles and you can't get a fast, modern football and counters with those 2 in midfield, for example.
    So, if Raki and Busi play, you can't blame EV.
    Ok, you can blame him because he PICKED them, I agree.
    But let's move forward, what are the other options?
    Arthur dwells on a ball for too long always (NOT because other players are not moving but because he dwells on a ball, that is his style of play). So, with him, you aren't getting any pace or faster football, you only get more possession and press resistance. Which is fine, but it doesn't change too much our pace of play.
    Let's go to attack. Messi is Messi, but he will soon reach granny levels of pace like Busi or Raki. And he is our main attacker. He can be a wizzard, but when your main attacker is slow as granny and is not moving off the ball, we are in problems.
    But what is even worse, Messi is not the only one in attack who can't move and play counters anymore.
    Suarez is the same, plus he sucks in majority of technical aspects.
    And then, a new toy, Griezz, is Coutinho vol2, except that he is maybe even worse as a winger than Cou, since Griezz is both slow and can't dribble.

    So, imagine if you are Frenkie or Arthur and you have a ball:
    On right side, you have braindead Semedo. Why bother with passing to him? He will only run towards the box, then stop, turn and pass the ball back to you. So, you won't pass the ball to Semedo.
    If you pass to Busi=fine. But nothing will happen. He won't run with the ball. He will just pass it to the opposite side, to other midfielder or Alba.
    If you pass it to Alba=ok, something may happen. He will run with the ball and try some solutions in attack.
    If you pass it to Suarez=he will be tackled, he will make a bad first touch, or he will trip over the ball or make a bad pass. He won't move into space and more or less nothing significant in terms of movement will happen.
    Messi=well, he will maybe dribble past 4 or make a forward pass to someone (but to whom? Since no one is moving and no one can move).
    So, basically, if you are Frenkie, you can pass the ball only to Arthur, Alba and Messi.
    If you are Arthur, you can pass the ball only to Frenkie, Alba and Messi.

    Then you are asking why we play a slow, static game? Lol.
    Again, imagine Frenkie having the ball, and he looks around:
    1. Pique, a CB, I won't pass backwards
    2. Lenglet, the same, even worse option
    3. Mats, the same
    4. Semedo, why bother? He is braindead in attack
    5. Alba=ok, he can try something
    6. Rakitic=why bother?
    7. Arthur=ok, he will hold the ball and then pas to someone, at least he won't lose the ball
    8. Busi=why bother? (in terms of attacking)
    9. Suarez=why bother?
    10. Griezz=more or less, why bother?
    11. Messi=maybe he will dribble past 4 and do something

    Now you guys will again reply=but it is COACH'S job to learn our players how to move blah blah.
    Busi is playing in a slow, possession based system for 12 years.
    How can he change his ways today? He can't.
    Messi plays this way since the day 1.
    Suarez is old and can't do anything either way.
    Semedo is not a footballer.
    Rakitic is old, slow and he was never too technical.

    I know that a coach is important, but all successful coaches have built a team around players whom they wanted.
    Rijkaard sold the whole team and bought 15 players whom he wanted.
    They were all young, motivated, technical, leaders.
    Our all attackers were fast and lethal (Ronaldinho, Etoo, Guily).
    When Pep came, he did the same. He sold old slow horses who lost the motivation (Ronnie, Deco, Edmilson, Motta, Thuram, Zambrotta etc) and played with younger players who were fit to his style.
    Klopp? You guys often mention Milner and Henderson as a proof how Liverpool sucks and how it is all about the coach.
    But Liverpool has:
    1) Salah=fast as light
    2) Firmino=quite fast, moving like crazy around the box
    3) Mane=very fast
    4) but also, they have 2 fast fullback who are creating a havoc all the time
    5) plus, even though some of their midfielders are not technical, they are used to release the ball faster.
    Their whole team is looking for counters and faster WHENEVER POSSIBLE. That is the main difference.
    That is one thing where we are paying the price of our history now.
    For years, Barca was built about possession football and ideas=don't lose the ball, don't take risks, possession is the most important thing.
    And that led to 2 things:
    1. we started to be complacent in that style of play. And playing safe, slow, without risks became our comfort zone.
    Possession game was always our core, but we turned into extremes lately.
    In the past we played possession and always looked for a deadly through ball. Nowadays, not only with EV but in the last 5-6 years=we play safe and we try risky passes only when the situation is almost perfect.
    Not to mention that we don't take corners (because we will lose possession, lol), we rarely try longshots (because we will lose possession) and we can't play counters because we have the slowest and the oldest team in Europe.
    When you sum it all, what can we play?=only a slow, boring, static possession football and pass the ball like in handball: left back=>left midfielder=>Busi=>right midfielder=>RB. Then RB turns and pass the ball in the opposite direction=>right midfielder=>Busi=>left midfielder=>Alba. And repeat the same over and over.

    Also, when I mentioned Liverpool, their crappy players like Henderson and Milner are faster than our midfielders.
    Plus, since they are born in England, faster and direct football is in their blood.
    Their core instincts are=get the ball, release it fast forward towards attackers.
    While instincts of Busi and our players are=take the ball. Make a twist and turn. Stop, look up. Run slowly. Wait until our players get into their positions. Now pass. Don't make risks. Play safe and keep possession. Possession is a key.

    This is not even about EV.
    My opinion is still that this team (bar Messi) is the worst since 2003.
    These players are good only on paper.
    Coutinho can't play here. Griezmann the same.
    Dembele, the dumbest footballer ever.
    Then a few turtles in Raki, Busi, Arthur.
    A few players who are barely footballers like Semedo, Suarez (in technical part), Vidal in terms of passing.

    I will jump on "let's fire EV" train now.
    But mostly due to a fact that people need a wake up call and return to reality.
    Barca are a team of mortals today. A team of very old, slow and drained mortals.
    We have one horrible president, who was winning titles due to Rijkaard's and Pep's core and due to Messi.
    Someone wrote yesterday that we had like 4-5 good transfers out of 20 in Barto's era, and that is even with counting Dembele and Semedo as a success, lol.

    I mean, fine, if sacking EV is the first step, fine.
    But still, who will sack Barto?
    Who will sack these horrible sporting directors?
    Who will sell 10 players from our team whom we don't need anymore?
    Even after EV, WHO will run? Who is a winger in our team? Only a kid Fati, who isn't the fastest guy either.
    Who will play after Messi and Suarez? We don't have anyone, only misfits Cou and Griezz. And Barto is chasing a 200M Neymar.

    I have asked the same question lots of times.
    Imagine that you guys would be our coaches from tomorrow.
    Do you think that you would be able to make our team play better?
    Ok, you guys would play Frenkie-Arthur. Fine.
    But what else can be done?
    What type of an attacking trio would you play?
    If you play Griezz-Suarez-Messi, we don't have pace and movement. We have 2 creators and we play only through the middle. we are easily stopped. No crosses, no headers, no corners, no longshots, no counters. Just a stupid play around the box where we try to break through a bus of 10 defenders.
    If you will play Fati-Griezz-Messi, again, we will probably end 5th on a table. Fati is too young, Messi doesn't move and Griezz is a horrible No9 who drops deep.

    Further, not to mention that it is even harder to create space and move into a space when we play against parked buses all the time.
    Where will you move into an open space when you have only a few meters in between the bus and a goal-line?
    And again, we are forcing the opponents to park the bus because we play a slow ass football.
    We don't want to play counters when we have an option (in a build up when the ball is in our half): Busi, Arthur and co will rather slow down and pass the ball one to another than to release it fast to players like Salah-Firmino-Mane.
    And then, even if they would relearn to play faster, whom would they pass the ball to? Only Alba can run into space.

    Some of you guys jump on my posts and see only: you are blind/stupid, since you defend EV.
    Yet, this is the most flawed, slow, old, mentally drained Barca's team since Gaspart.
    Barca won't start to play better after EV.
    Barca will start to play better after:
    1. EV
    2. Barto
    3. and once when we sell half of our current team
    4. and once when we buy 10 new players who will be more functional, young, faster, technical, smart and ready to play both possession and faster football.

    That surely can't be changed fast.
    It will take a few years. That means a LOT OF MYSERY and whining posts since then.
    I hope that fans will come down to Earth in that time.
    I am with you, EV is bad and he has lost a plot. But feel free to quote me guys: no matter who he will come after EV: we will be even worse because our team/board/everything around it is on a downward spiral and there is no way back until we reach the bottom. And we are far from the bottom.
    Crujff's team had to reach the bottom. Van Gaal's Barca had to reach the bottom. Rijkaard's Barca had to reach the bottom.
    And this Barca was more successful than all of those Barca's. Which means that the fall will be even bigger and longer than then.

    That problem and pattern is a psychological problem.
    And even worse, we suck even on a tactical and physical part. We suck at everything: age, physique, motivation, complacency, coach, board, sporting directors, spoiled fans.
    So you guys, it would be better if you lower your expectations and save some nerves.
    Because a very, very, VERY rocky times are infront of us.
    Even without a mighty coach with a big nose.
    Despite all the realities you posted about our players' deficiencies and shortcomings, you do have to acknowledge the fact that we don't have a worse squad than Granada. The squads are not even comparable. This team should be able to demolish Granada level teams away from home. This team should not concede two goals against a team with a roster value so low. We should be able to create a couple of chances at least, with players like Messi, Griezmann, Suarez, Frankie, Rakitic etc.

    And this is not a one-off unucky result. We have been playing consistently bad, conceding like crazy and creating zero chances for far too long.

    We have been relying exclusively on Messi and Alba to create absolutely everything. Now, with Alba out and Messi not 100% (and a year older), reality has come crashing in. This is not about physicality only. We have never been a purely physical, pacy team (at least the last 12 years), but we were always relying on technique and footballing IQ.

    But as I have said earlier, put all the sporting reasons aside, and Valverde still needs to be sacked, or we will hit rock bottom. He has killed the team's unity, confidence, creativity and team spirit. No group of players would be able to perform with the current status.

  3. #1728
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    How long it will take him to realize that playing Griez as LW or RW wont work, you either drop Suarez for him or try to play with 4-3-3 with Messi as false 9 and Griez in an inside forward role and hopefully pray that Griez can play the role like Villa.

    This is is like the Cavani and Ibra stuff, both of them are strikers, Cavani had to be shoehorned into the wing for Ibra at that time until he left.

  4. #1729
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    Speaking about players with this coach is like speaking on how to get rid of cold while you have cancer.
    So much talk about Semedo for example. Semedo is full back! Let that sinks in, while FB's are important in modern game he is still just a FB.
    His main job is tracking back fast enough, and then running up front, so he needs good stamina, decent to good defending and dangerous cross. Everything else for FB is a plus but not needed.
    People now prise L'pool FB's, but they are only doing their job in system that works - they cover back and run on the side and pump the cross regulary. Nothing more!
    But they have targets to cross, their players are attacking the box, moving constantly.
    Pause any game of ours when Semedo gets the ball on the right edge of the box. He has NOONE in the middle or Suarez standing on far post which is stupidity on its own. Noone else even attacking from the deep, except sometimes Vidal when he plays. So what can he do now?
    1. He can put a cross in (hail Mary cross as there is noone in). He would probably miss and then Suarez would scream, EV would scream as apparently this is not how we play.
    2. He can dribble pass 3 players and get in some good position. Is this what we ask for a damn FB? Yes, then he sucks, he can't do that.
    3. He can pass backwards. This is 95% of the time.

    Griezmann played in damn AM, he nows about dynamic, Dembele as well, FDJ as well, Arthur, Vidal, all our FB's, Fati looks tho thrive under it, Perez as well....SO NO! Our team is perfectly capable of playing with much more movement.
    And yet, all those look afwul today, Griezz looks like midtable striker, FDJ has no ideas where to pass, Arthur is backmerchant.
    Funny enough I see Coutinho is donig just fine, and he is coached by Kovac, who i never considered top class, yet what does that says about EV?