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Thread: Retardo

  1. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeRomeno View Post
    He was really impressive in his first season, apart from that Roma game, second season went okey until that final month, when all collapsed and when he should have really left or been fired. This season has been constant struggle with SuperCopa game actually being one of the best ones we had. Oh the irony. Valverdes biggest problem was that he was too much of a nice guy, he lacked fire and motivate his aging and demotivated squad. With some other coaches, hairdryers would have flown in half time in Anfield, he just is not that type of person, and this is the type of person our team needs at the moment. He is definitely a smart and nice guy and knows the tactics, but another thing is getting players actually do what he wants and he lacked that, especially with the "amigos".
    Agree with most of what you say, but i want to add something:
    It was really in his first season without Neymar, without Dembele, without Coutinho (first half), that we saw the model of what "EV's Barcelona" is, which didn't change afterwards. Without the necessary attacking threat upfront and quality wingers, he resorted to a 4-4-2 ish formation which relied heavily on 8 players defending and dropping deep, while keeping Messi-Suarez upfront and letting them cause the damage in transition. This might be characterized as a pragmatic solution for to the time, given the constraints and the limitations of the squad. It's fair to say,however, that this solution as pragmatic as it is, is also at the expense of any attacking-minded, possession-oriented style of play: hence the most boring, ugly Barcelona of the last many years.
    Valverde's limitations came up however during his second and third seasons: The incorporation of quality players that either recovered (Dembele), or were brought in (Coutinho, Arthur, Vidal, Malcom, De Jong) never happened, cauz the blueprint was the same: defensive 4-4-2 with the team dropping deep to defend. Even when on paper we were playing 4-3-3 the role of the attacking 3 was the same: the one that was not messi or suarez would drop deep on either wing and one midfielder would shift to the other wing to defend in a 4-4-2. No wonder why Rakitic never sat on the bench (until EV was practically forced at the beginning of this season to sit him by the board and its 'sporting project' in younger players, but only to gradually reintroduce him again in the starting XI): He was indispensable when EV formed the first 3 months in his mind what football he wants to play. So, all in all, EV failed in his second and third season with his failure to play better football when the squad at his disposal was so much better than what he had to begin with - not that i deem him non-guilty for the defensive orientation in general he started with and the abandonment of any thought of building sth more loyal to the footballing values of this club, but at least i see some redeeming features.

    Other than that, i subscribe to everything you say about the motivational, psychological aspect and the 'amigos' culture, etc. Needless to say, i belong to the people thinking that Rome and Anfield collapses had nothing to do with tactics, but were the top of the iceberg of a long history of psychological failures of this team in away/important CL/cup games that goes way back.. EV's motivational limitations just exacerbated what was already there.

    By the way, i rate EV seasons: 9/5/4
    (for Pep i would give a 10/9/10/9
    for Lucho a 10/8/6)

    PS: I am excited about Setien, i think he is the right person to revive at least some football values that seem lost by now, but i am also waiting to see if he can fix the psychological issue, and whether Barca's football limitations weigh heavily on the side of the squad or on side of tactics and system per se.
    Xavi's Cups

  2. #4952
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeRomeno View Post
    I would give Valverde seasons 9/6/5. He was really impressive in his first season, apart from that Roma game, second season went okey until that final month, when all collapsed and when he should have really left or been fired.
    But how big part of fanbase treats him like he was some antichrist is just sad. People have a habit of trying to find simple answers to complex questions and over the years, for many, Valverde turned into that answer. Reactions on his sacking are living proof of that.
    Exactly what is wrong with the fanbase right now. You only felt a problem in barca when roma and liverpool happened. Before that all was fine because we were winning. Tough titties mate but if you looked past the wins you would have seen a plethora of raging problems masked by lucky wins. He was 70% the problem at the very least. Fans like you are the reason he wasn't fired way earlier.

    I sometimes wonder, if we had somehow avoided that anfield collapse, chances were we would have won the CL and everyone would be all praised for him. Anyone saying luck or anything would be thoroughly ridiculed. It's such a result-oriented world we live in.
    RESULTS CAN BE MISLEADING. LOOK DEEPER

  3. #4953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neymessi View Post
    Exactly what is wrong with the fanbase right now. You only felt a problem in barca when roma and liverpool happened. Before that all was fine because we were winning. Tough titties mate but if you looked past the wins you would have seen a plethora of raging problems masked by lucky wins. He was 70% the problem at the very least. Fans like you are the reason he wasn't fired way earlier.

    I sometimes wonder, if we had somehow avoided that anfield collapse, chances were we would have won the CL and everyone would be all praised for him. Anyone saying luck or anything would be thoroughly ridiculed. It's such a result-oriented world we live in.
    okey buddy

  4. #4954
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    The last 5 matches before Roma showed very clear signs of massive problems, but we were unbeaten in the league so no one noticed them. We were beyond lucky against Chelsea to qualify, but on here you would have been labelled a pessimistic if you said that. Against Atletico that time we barely won 1-0 that too by a Messi FK in which no credit should be given to EV especially when we were dire all match with 0 attacking intent all game but no one saw any issues there.

    So it's not like everything was fine up to the point of Roma and Liverpool. Things were pretty bad even before them but most just didn't notice them because of an undeserving league position and a potential undefeated season.
    RESULTS CAN BE MISLEADING. LOOK DEEPER