Ernesto Valverde

serghei

serghei

Senior Member
You think the manager doesn't have a key role in how a team plays? Sure, it is a pure coincidence that Liverpool have made two back to back finals only after Klopp became the manager.

Seriously, man? Nobody would do any better than Valverde? What a crazy thing to say.
 
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Hamzah

High Definition Member
Valverde is an average manager, especially with his game management and team selections, but his style was the only way the old and slow players could achieve success. Playing a high intensity pressing game or tiki taka game with those players is just not possible. Even Klopp couldn't get Suarez or Busquets in their current state to play well. Imagine Klopp or Guardiola trying to play his style with our players who are old, slow and don't put effort in when defending.

Thankfully Griezmann and de Jong are at the club and in an ideal world there would be a new manager to match the change in personnel and play a style that's more fitting for this club. IMO Griezmann should replace Suarez and de Jong replace Busquets. That leaves Rakitic and Roberto the remaining "starters" who need to be replaced IMO.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Hamzah said:
Valverde is an average manager, especially with his game management and team selections, but his style was the only way the old and slow players could achieve success. Playing a high intensity pressing game or tiki taka game with those players is just not possible. Even Klopp couldn't get Suarez or Busquets in their current state to play well. Imagine Klopp or Guardiola trying to play his style with our players who are old, slow and don't put effort in when defending.

Thankfully Griezmann and de Jong are at the club and in an ideal world there would be a new manager to match the change in personnel and play a style that's more fitting for this club.
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Could have been a sensible explanation if Valverde didn't love veteran slow and lazy players that are at the root of our issues. You're basically telling me that the team's weak point (slow veteran players) happen to be the players Valverde rates the highest. Don't you think that Valverde is in fact very much worsening the issues?

The problem is that the flaws in this team are deepened by a clueless manager. We signed Arthur and Vidal in the summer, a 22 year old and a 31 year old. Who do you think got 2/2 starts in the biggest games of the season? Lol.

The issues of this team, which are recognized by most good posers here, including you, are actually made worse by Valverde. He is supposed to fix the issues in the team, some of which do indeed precede him. Not make them worse.
 
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Hamzah

High Definition Member
serghei said:
Could have been a sensible explanation if Valverde didn't love veteran slow and lazy players that are at the root of our issues. You're basically telling me that the team's weak point (slow veteran players) happen to be the players Valverde rates the highest. Don't you think that Valverde is in fact very much worsening the issues.
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I agree, and think the new blood should be accompanied by a manager that can play a style suited to them and help them develop.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Hamzah said:
I agree, and think the new blood should be accompanied by a manager that can play a style suited to them and help them develop.
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That is what everybody wants. You can't have a reconstruction with a manager who goes the opposite way. No matter how many talented youg players you want. It's like you buy only high quality cuts of meat, but hire a chef which is specialized in salads.

Poor_Sunyol said:
Where is your evidence that Valverde loves slow and lazy players? What a strange thing to say.
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The incredible number of minutes Rakitic has had while playing average since 2016. The unexplained benching of Arthur after he was one of the best if not the best midfielder in the team in the first half of the season. The treatment of Malcom, who deserved so much more. Using Pique and Busi to death, even though both are past it, and slow. The fact that he said he likes small squads, which means he doesn't really believe in rotating too much, while rotation is basically the main form of promoting and developing young players, who otherwise don't have much chances to play.
 
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Devils

Devils

Senior Member
Of course Valverde is not to blame.

It's just miracle that managers like Pep and Klopp manage to seamlessly integrate most of their signings and also elevate those players to the next level while also bringing out the best in seemingly 'past it' old players before their arrival as managers like Fernandinho, Milner, Kompany, Silva and Aguero.

Valverde obviously can't be blamed because these managers perform 'miracles'.
 
Poor_Sunyol

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
serghei said:
That is what everybody wants. You can't have a reconstruction with a manager who goes the opposite way. No matter how many talented youg players you want. It's like you buy only high quality cuts of meat, but hire a chef which is specialized in salads.



The incredible number of minutes Rakitic has had while playing average since 2016. The unexplained benching of Arthur after he was one of the best if not the best midfielder in the team in the first half of the season. The treatment of Malcom, who deserved so much more. Using Pique and Busi to death, even though both are past it, and slow. The fact that he said he likes small squads, which means he doesn't really believe in rotating too much, while rotation is basically the main form of promoting and developing young players, who otherwise don't have much chances to play.
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So what were his options Einstein?
 
Poor_Sunyol

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
Old and lazy players. This is the same manager who gave the following youngsters their debuts last year:

Todibo
Alena
Riqui Puig
Miranda
Abel Ruiz

and the others that I can't remember. No other manager would have been able to do better with the constraints he has to work with and the failure of Coutinho and Dembele. Who have been total shite.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
serghei said:
Not true. Under Pep we played well away in the CL. Our results didn't match the quality of the football we displayed. Losses vs Arsenal and Chelsea should have been easy wins if not for abysmal finishing. Vs Inter we had one of the worst refereeing performance ever. 2 goals of Inter should have been discarded and a stonewall pen should have been given to us.

There is a big difference between playing well but losing or drawing, and playing terrible while being humiliated.

Under Pep the results did not match the performances away. Under Valverde, the results are a natural consequence of playing shit on a stick defensive football.
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Could have been this, could have been that. Truth is we played totally different (lower) level of football for most part under Pep in away games. And we didn't deserve an equalizer against Chelsea either and it was probably most important game in his career.
The discrepancy in the level between home and away was just apparent in Pep era as much of EV, but in Pep our level of footballw was way higher in both anyway.
 
Messigician

Messigician

Senior Member
Poor_Sunyol said:
And the players were in their prime.
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I agree that is was player errors for our defeats not really tactical problem like the demolition by Bayern was.

Yerry Mina screwed our undefeated season.

Umtiti screwed us at Rome

Alba and Rakitic errors and Dembele miss screwed us at Anfield.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
khaled_a_d said:
Could have been this, could have been that. Truth is we played totally different (lower) level of football for most part under Pep in away games. And we didn't deserve an equalizer against Chelsea either and it was probably most important game in his career.
The discrepancy in the level between home and away was just apparent in Pep era as much of EV, but in Pep our level of footballw was way higher in both anyway.
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Sorry man, that's just not true. Imo, the Pep tenure is about playing top football throughout, obviously better at home, but underachieving in the away games. We were the better team on the pitch in the vast majority of the away games, but the players let him down. Simply not acceptable how we lost some of the games we dominated almost from start to end. Arsenal 1-2, and Chelsea 0-1, is an example how to lose games due to crap finishing.

Hilariously, the one game where we were outplayed fair and square, the Chelsea 2009 game is the one where we got a great result. Inter tie was mared by abysmal refereeing, there must have been 2-3 penalties which we would've got if there was VAR. Plus 2 out of 3 goals Inter scored were illegal. Fuck, Milito was half a yard offside for one of them.

Yea, we played lower level away with Pep. But it was good away, and sensational at home. Not crap away as you claim. Watch the Chelsea semifinal in 2012 again and you'll change your mind.
 
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Poor_Sunyol

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
In truth Ernesto doesn't inspire me either, but I also appreciate the situation he is in and the current situation with the squad. We need to rebuild, but the senior players are not quite ready to move on just yet and we can't really force them to because of the outstanding service and commitment they have shown to the club. Just blaming the manager though is just lazy.
 
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