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Thread: 10 - Lionel Messi

  1. #5041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilarrubi View Post
    Iniesta had no Messi, Pep and others with Spain, yet won 3 trophies in a row over 4 years with them, playing a key part. Obviously Spain has an insane team too but Iniesta won too many trophies at the top level for it just to be down to “his teammates”.
    Yep.
    Iniesta was Spain's best player. Xavi had problems fitting in as a CAM together with Busquets and Alonso and wasn't as influential as in Pep's 4-3-3. Iniesta on the other hand was dominating as a LW even íf he lacked pace.

    There's absolutely 0 reason to believe that Iniesta wouldn't improve ANY team in ANY era. He was that good and for sure is one of the all time greats.

    I also don't see any reason to pick a winner between Xavi vs Iniesta. Those two played their entire primes together both at club and NT. Of course they benefited from each other and both would become worse if separated and put into say Manchester United. But both of them would still be the best player of the team.

    Can do some mental gymnastics and put numbers to it.
    Xavi graded 9/10 individually became 10/10 with right teammates.
    Iniesta 9/10 individually became 10/10 with right teammates.
    Messi 10/10 already.
    Busquets 8/10 individually became 9/10 in Pep's system. Even if he was in a perfect system he had his obvious flaws (weak, slow), but no team could exploit it in his prime (maybe Bayern 2013).
    Last edited by Andresito; 27th March 2020 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #5042
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    Do not want a longer debate about Iniesta/Laudrup, today/90s etc. Just a quick correction: Denmark won the Euros without Michael Laudrup who had beef with the coach.

  3. #5043
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    Xavi and Iniesta are shoe-in top 5 midfielders of all time. I personally think Xavi was the better of the pair but it's splitting hairs.

    Only others in this class are Zidane, Matthaus, and Rijkaard.

    For me, the attacking/goal scoring no.10s are a different category. Here, it'd be Platini, Zico, Maradona etc.

  4. #5044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaugrana Bull View Post
    @BBZ8800

    Do not want a longer debate about Iniesta/Laudrup, today/90s etc. Just a quick correction: Denmark won the Euros without Michael Laudrup who had beef with the coach.

  5. #5045
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    Here's an actual tough question:

    Would you take prime Messi - Xavi - Iniesta (2011) or prime MSN (2015)?

  6. #5046
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    Xavi and Iniesta were arguably better individual players than Neymar and Suarez. So its rather easy for me, MSN was damn entertaining though.

  7. #5047
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    MSN was getting carried by Messi, people forget really fast, Neymar was in horrible in his last season and Suarez was missing as many sitters as he is now, it's just that he worked harder.
    Xavi and Iniesta were actually redefining football.

  8. #5048
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    Here's an actual tough question:

    Would you take prime Messi - Xavi - Iniesta (2011) or prime MSN (2015)?
    It's efficiency vs raw power.
    #NeyorBust Let continue where we left off ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ👑

  9. #5049
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    Here's an actual tough question:

    Would you take prime Messi - Xavi - Iniesta (2011) or prime MSN (2015)?
    2011
    2009
    2015

    I have it in that order, in terms of how good the overall team is.

    However the 2015 Prime MSN team had arguably the greatest European Football run in a single season.

    As for the Iniesta vs. Xavi discussion, then you can go either way I guess, but for the Spanish NT Xavi was definitely the more important player. I'm not saying he was better, but he was the most important as that team collapsed the moment the guy declined despite having several good players still playing at a very high level.
    Last edited by DonAK; 27th March 2020 at 05:44 PM.


  10. #5050
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    Messi - Xavi - Iniesta >>> MSN
    Not even a competition between them IMO.

  11. #5051
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    Very interesting responses. I personally rate Messi Xavi Iniesta higher but 2015 MSN gave me a security/confidence in winning games against any opposition like no other.

    At one point, we won 12 out of 13 home or AWAY big games in 2015. Atletico x 5, RM x 2, PSG X 2, City x 2, Bayern, Juve. I don't think we had that sort of results dominance even in 2011 or 2009.


    I think the way 2016 and 2017 panned out soured a lot of people on just how nuclear MSN was in 2015.

    2011 Ballon D'Or was Messi, CR7, Xavi, Iniesta
    2015 Ballon D'Or was Messi, CR7, Ney, Suarez
    Last edited by KingLeo10; 27th March 2020 at 06:54 PM.

  12. #5052
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    My initial response was Xaviesta but looking deeper 2015 is the best version for any football team tbh. That team was so dominant and creative home and away against every type of position. With Xaviesta we were a bit vulnerable outside of home.
    That being said, Iniesta was probably playing his best football in 2015 and Busquets and Rakitic were both elites too, same with 2009 (Eto/Henry in attack) and 2011 (Pedro/Villa) so there are other factors to consider. But still I think MSN was a very small margin

  13. #5053
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonAK View Post
    but for the Spanish NT Xavi was definitely the more important player. I'm not saying he was better, but he was the most important as that team collapsed the moment the guy declined despite having several good players still playing at a very high level.
    Only in 2008, Iniesta was far better by clear margin in 2012, 2010 is debatable but I prefered Iniesta.

  14. #5054
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    Regarding the spanish NT,I think that Iniesta was the best player in Euro 2012,but Xavi was better in 2010 and of course in 2008.Anyway,both are fantastic.

    I'd take Messi-Xavi-Iniesta over MSN to be honest.

    The interesting question though is 2011 Barca vs 2015 Barca in a two-legged knockout!That would be a phenomenal match-up.Although my heart says 2011,my head says that no one could stop MSN in their prime.
    Barto Out

  15. #5055
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    Xavi and Iniesta are shoe-in top 5 midfielders of all time. I personally think Xavi was the better of the pair but it's splitting hairs.

    Only others in this class are Zidane, Matthaus, and Rijkaard.

    For me, the attacking/goal scoring no.10s are a different category. Here, it'd be Platini, Zico, Maradona etc.
    What about Gullit,? Unreal player.