Lionel Messi - v7

serghei said:

When you look at Messi within the team, 2009-11 Messi is the best for me, closely followed by 14-15. Now he creates more statistically, but the freedom he has in terms of other duties is huge. During Guardiola, he had to do more in terms of tactics, pressing, positioning. Nobody counts that when judging 'the best Messi'. They look at goals and assist and chances created only.

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KingLeo10 said:

2010-2011 was his absolute peak. He was churning out top, top performances in terms of goals, assists, dribbling v teams like RM and Man.United.

2014-2015 is his second best season. He had ~120 dribbles in the CL that year (averaging 10 plus dribbles a game against La Liga opponents is one thing but doing it in the CL KO stages is just ludicrous). Took Bayern, City (especially), and Juventus to school.

2011-2012 is statistically his best season ever. I'd put that, 09/10, 08/09 and 12/13 (until that PSG injury) third.

Then 18/19 just slightly behind that. Maybe 16/17 too.

13-14 was the worst Messi. Unfit, all attention on the WC since Jan etc.

I agree that just looking at assists, goals, or chances created is misleading. I absolutely do not buy that the current version of Messi is anywhere near prime Messi. That guy dismantled WC defenders for fun in 1 on 1. I don't see him do that regularly anymore. Only his passing is better than it used to be. Everything else is worse to a lot worse. Still enough to be best in the world (like last season) but not by a landslide. I think him, CR7 (big game scoring), Neyclown (when he's serious and fit) are all in the mix or same level right now.

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serghei said:

Yea, around that. 14-15 was the last peak Messi season imo. That was the last season where his dribbling at the highest level was near his best.

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DonAK said:

https://twitter.com/BarcaStat/status/1267115816543191040

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DonAndres said:

People sell 18/19 Messi short. That was his "old dog with new tricks" year to the max and IMO his most well rounded.

To me it was clearly his most impressive season in terms of playmaking ever, especially considering the lack of support/targets around him. He perfected the Messi/Alba connection and was able to pull it off at will. Also hit his absolute peak with FK's in that season which was not really the case in 14/15 (though he was good).

His scoring from outside the box also took significant steps forward since 14/15 as well, had some outrageous ones last season and I think something like 20-25% of his goals came from outside the box which is absurd for a 50 goal total.

And he added all these dimensions to his game while maintaining a 50+ goal season (quality of goals being incredible as well) and his dribbling in 18/19 was amazing too. It definitely wasn't as good as his 10/11 or 14/15 season dribbling but he was still dropping fools and clowning defenders with cleverness and guile instead of just explosiveness.

He lost so much of his athleticism but last year he was still taking over games and impacting them exactly the way that was needed at the exact time. His IQ was as great as its ever been and he wasn't as inactive/static like it felt in 16/17 or 17/18, he was highly active over the whole 90 minutes with smart positioning. In terms of IQ, understanding, and mental edge I think Messi was better than ever in 18/19. It felt like everyone else was playing the game while he was playing the game within the game.

And he was more dominant in CL than he had been in years with 2 goals in every KO stage. United/Lyon get shit on but they are still tough teams and Messi still scored against BOTH the CL finalists of that season (Liverpool/Tottenham). That version of Messi with any of his teammates from the 10/11 or 14/15 years would've went wild.

Wasn't his best year especially due to a shoddy supporting cast, but it was my favorite individually and peak cerebral Messi.

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Andresito said:

If any interested, this season's top chance creators in our midfield:

24 - Frenkie
20 - Busquets
13 - Vidal
11 - Arthur
8 - Rakitic
6 - Others

Busi's stats heavily inflated by seeking the simple pass to Messi every time.

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Sorin said:

Don't the others have the same opportunity to find the simple pass to Messi? Why did you only single out Busquets?

Busquets has many, many shortcomings and clearly should be benched by Frenkie at this point, but even in this shitty state of his, his passing is still better than the CMs who are supposed to play more advanced and create chances. Busi's main role shouldn't be chance creation, the fact that he is second on that chart is sad as hell.

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