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Thread: 10 - Lionel Messi

  1. #6481
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    Superstars who made their glory on pitch, not instagram.

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    National team football, for me, peaked in 2006. That was the greatest collection of talent in a tournament that I've seen.

    For club football, I think it peaked somewhere in the late 2000s - early to mid 2010s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    This is true, but the teams back then had elite managers plus superstars. Pep, Mou (Inter, RM), SAF, Heynckes are all top drawer.
    Depends where you draw the line at the word "superstars". Only Barca and Madrid were superstar teams, with many all time great players in their ranks.

    Don't think Liverpool today are any weaker player-wise than United in late 00's or Inter, or Bayern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Depends where you draw the line at the word "superstars". Only Barca and Madrid were superstar teams, with many all time great players in their ranks.

    Don't think Liverpool today are any weaker player-wise than United in late 00's or Inter, or Bayern.
    United - Ballon d'Or CR7, Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Rio, Vidic, VDS, Evra and a lot of other great supplementary pieces.

    Inter is comparable to Pool, I'll concede that. Still they had names like Eto'o and Sneijder.

    Bayern - Ribery, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Muller (in those days he was the best SS in the world and clutch), Boateng, Alaba, Lahm, Neuer

    Liverpool - I'd only consider Mane, Salah, Van Dijk, Trent, and maybe Alison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    United - Ballon d'Or CR7, Rooney, Tevez, Scholes, Rio, Vidic, VDS, Evra and a lot of other great supplementary pieces.

    Inter is comparable to Pool, I'll concede that. Still they had names like Eto'o and Sneijder.

    Bayern - Ribery, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Muller (in those days he was the best SS in the world and clutch), Boateng, Alaba, Lahm, Neuer

    Liverpool - I'd only consider Mane, Salah, Van Dijk, Trent, and maybe Alison.
    You're right about United, more legends.

    Bayern is close. Why is Alaba and not Robertson?

    From Liverpool, 4/5 players in their defense are top 3 in their position (Alisson 2nd best GK, Van Dijnk no1 CB, Trent no1 RB, Robertson arguably no1 LB). All would make the cut. From midfield, Wijnaldum makes the cut as individually clutch. In attack 2/3 make the cut, with Salah and Mane among the best players in the world.

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    They only pale in comparison when looking at 2009 or 2011 Barcelona, or even 2015, where almost all players bar one or two are world class with some being even beyond that. Or, to a lesser extent, Madrid, with players like Ramos, Marcelo, Ronaldo, Kroos, Modric, world class or in the conversation for more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Although his points are exaggerated, there's quite a lot of things there which are not fantasy.

    This ESPN article shares the same views that Messi is pulling the strings in the team behind closed doors, in conjunction with his veteran friends. You couple this article with live video vs Celta showing Messi flat out disrespecting the managers publicly... and there's a lot that makes sense there. Sure, if you're a fan of Messi the person, you can disregard all of that.

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelon...ot-the-manager

    So, it's perfectly fine if people think Messi doesn't do that. But there's a lot that suggests he does as well.

    Also, it's illogical if you think Amigos run the club, but spare Messi of major blame in this. If you think Amigos run the club and they use their seniority to influence things that are above their profession, then you have to follow through and be against Messi just by principle alone. There's no Amigos without Messi. Messi is Amigo no1. The worst things in the team can be seen with Messi: veterans stepping outside their boundaries, laziness, improper discipline, protecting soft managers, you name it. People act as if these are fine because he is great at playing football. But they're not.
    He said:

    -Pep left because of him
    -Xavi didn't join because of him
    -Our board is bad because of him (lol)
    -He decides who can join Barca (lol, he would be a bad scout)

    To me these statements are nothing but fantasy, but i do agree that he and the amigos could use a kick in the ass. Personally i would let go everyone of them except him. Now imagine you are
    the goat of the sport and you have idiots running things at the club you love and don't want to leave. What would you do? Depending on your character there are different options, he choose extremely passive resistance and
    kept producing on goat level. Of course someone will now say that he should have been more vocal, lol. He just can't win can he?

    We wouldn't have this state of things if we had a wc coach with a vision. Is that also on Messi?

    Point: Don't put blame on his ass when, except for 4 years, he played under 3rd quality level(at best) managers, including the national team. In the past decade every single season Barca had
    an obvious weaknesses in the starting 11. Not to mention the bench players. Barca is one of the richest clubs on the planet, so who's to blame for that? Messi? Now think about the guy who's often compared to him
    and think about his teams and managers he played under. See the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    Messi is still easily world class and probably the best player in the world but prime Messi was just something else - alien tier. Even if we don't win, I think if you drop Messi 08-15 in this squad, he gets us far in the CL. There are no super teams around and the closest one to a super team (Pool) has been KOed. The top CL teams in his heyday were a lot stronger IMO. RM, Bayern, United, Inter etc. This Bayern every one raves about would get crushed by the Robbery combo backed up by Lahm/Alaba.
    It's probably the other way around if anything. Bayern, Barca, and Madrid were strong but the rest not really. You bring up Inter and United but each of them only had 1 season as a great team in that era, 09-10 for Inter and 08-09 for United. The fact that 2011 United was a top three team speaks volumes about the lack of quality around that time.
    Last edited by Katarina1; 31st July 2020 at 08:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katarina1 View Post
    It's probably the other way around if anything. Bayern, Barca, and Madrid were strong but the rest not really. You bring up Inter and United but each of them only had 1 season as a great team in that era, 09-10 for Inter and 08-09 for United. The fact that 2011 United was a top three team speaks volumes about the lack of quality around that time.
    Right now only Liverpool is near the level of those teams though. Barca/Madrid are not very good, City are unproven in Europe, Atletico they try hard but aren't a great team, Juve are past it as well. PSG are joke in Champions League, until they prove otherwise. Bayern are good, but not as good as back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Right now only Liverpool is near the level of those teams though. Barca/Madrid are not very good, City are unproven in Europe, Atletico they try hard but aren't a great team, Juve are past it as well. PSG are joke in Champions League, until they prove otherwise. Bayern are good, but not as good as back then.
    It's easy to make past eras look better when you cherrypick the best teams from different seasons. If you pick a particular season, you could easily find similar flaws with the teams then.

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    Pep left because of Rosell. Eto'o and Ibra because of Pep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie-Antoinette View Post
    Pep left because of Rosell. Eto'o and Ibra because of Pep.
    Nice user name

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    Quote Originally Posted by khaled_a_d View Post
    Nice user name
    Nice to meet you too! 😉

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    Get a room.

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    My man Khaled stylin out here.