FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
2015 team was incredibly. We had three of the top4 attackers in the game. It was insane.
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
2015 team was incredibly. We had three of the top4 attackers in the game. It was insane.
Destroyed! Without Messi
He had more appearances than anybody else that season. Of course he was the main man, and without him they probably aren't as successful. Of course he had great players playing with him that is how you win at the elite level (La Liga was hands down the best league). It's always been the case, since about his second or third full season. I'm not going to argue with you on this. You can't have it both ways, bash him when they don't perform but not praise him when they do. It has always been about the team, and imo the team has been steadily declining for near on eight years. They've done an absolute appalling job of phasing in younger players to take adavantage of the one true gem in their ranks. I was in the Vicente Calderon on the day they won the league in May 2015. [I even saw them two weeks previously at Camp Nou, where Neymar got one and Pedro scored an overhead bicycle kick. Yesir, Pedro.
] He was once again absolutely brilliant (in both games but especially in Madrid), dictating play from the half way line to the box, like he always did in these big games by then. Xavi and Iniesta were becoming less influential hence the reason they started going long when Suarez appeared and Pedro left. I recall a ball he served up on a plate for Neymar to score (surely) but he blazed waaay over for 3pts. Had Messi been selfish he probably could have taken another few steps and you'd have had the ball nestling in the bottom left hand corner of the goal as usual.Contrast that with the last few years, with Suarez steadily bouncing one-twos off his shins, Dembele missing open goals and Griezmann, well
boys a laugh!
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BarcaOG
Banned
THese narratives are tedious in the extreme. The Roma, Juve, Bayern, and Liverpool debacles - people are actually expecting him to playmake, score, hell win these games all by himself.
Simply put, Messi wasn't the problem on an indivisual level anyway. Players of his ability are not a problem. What has been the problem for Barcelona for many years now is their set-up - the recruitment and man-anagement, ergo the coaching. Anyone that has been following the sage for 10-15 yrs could see the deterioration as plain as the nose on your face. Is it really any wonder he wanted out. "Aye, lets get stuck into these Scouse bassas, c'mon lads!!" And with that Lionel jack-rabbits after Andy Robertson as he receives the ball from Allison, only for the Scot to calmly play it back inside to Virgil, who knocks it into Fabino.
meh, excuses. when messi delivers its because hes the goat this and the goat that and can decide matches by himself blah blah blah
when he doesnt (and he hasnt for half a decade now which in football is a lifetime) its his teammates this and his teammates that.
either he is the best in the world and can decide matches, or he isnt. you cant have it both ways. which ever way you look at it (and the statistics on this question are pretty damning) messi has been absolutely average in the CL since 2015, especially in the KOs. you simply cannot twist yourself out of that one.
BarcaOG
Banned
his 2019 CL was garbage. you need to win two matches to move on to the next round. you cant have a good game at home (which he absolutely did) and then go missing the next as your team goes down in flames 4-0. that is precisely when you need to show up. from reading your silly posts youd think messi hadnt been involved in all the CL humiliations weve received the past years. sorry, hes part of the team, and must bear the blame, especiallly since hes our main player
The point is there is no hypocrisy in idolizing the historical Ronaldinho while also criticizing the present Messi because one is looking at a past performance and the other is looking at a current performance. Same thing, there is no hypocrisy in idolizing Messis achievements (history) while criticizing the current Messi (present).
soul24rage
Senior Member
My word, there's a difference between being objective and having an exaggerated opinion.
Enough Barcaforum today for me.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
BarcaOG is a CR7 twerker.
Messi scored 12 CL goals in less than those number of games that season. 6 KO goals in 6 games.
Alik should ban him for a little while to remind him that while Messi/any player can and should be fairly criticized, spewing nonsense like Messi being garbage in CL in 18/19 is not acceptable/trolling.
Messi scored 12 CL goals in less than those number of games that season. 6 KO goals in 6 games.
Alik should ban him for a little while to remind him that while Messi/any player can and should be fairly criticized, spewing nonsense like Messi being garbage in CL in 18/19 is not acceptable/trolling.
You?ve not fully understood my points and I?m not explaining again, it?s fine it?s not that deep and it?s not about you.
JohnN
Senior Member
I agree with you. Did anyone call somebody an extremist? Or are you making shit up as you go?
Birdy
Senior Member
No mate, Barca fan is someone who wants the best for the Club and exercises opinion with that criterion in mind.
Barca fan is not someone who blindly worships any club legend without posing any critical concern, without noticing when he is not playing well, and above all without noticing when his presence is burdening the future of the Club
Birdy
Senior Member
And it's useful (all Messi fanboys) to ask yourself:
How come?
Messi won UCL and Barca was arguably the best team in Europe ONLY when Messi was not the 'leader' 'carrier' 'captain', but he was one great start among the many (Xavi, Iniesta and the well-oiled machine of Pep / Suarez, Neymar and the MSN management of Lucho).
On the contrary he failed miserably when he was the sole star and posed as 'leader' 'captain', carrier of the team, and Barca was a mediocre side compared to the top European sides. Even in 18/19 when he was obsessed with UCL, he announced already in the summer that he wants it, and he put his best individual performances in UCL, we saw how it ended...
Van Gaal's interview from 2019 is always current and eye-opening for all fanboys suffering from Messi-delusion:
"He’s the best individual player in the world. I like him. But why hasn’t he won the Champions League for five years? As captain, you must ask yourself this"
"Guardiola won it with Barcelona because he had Messi and because he didn't let Messi play in his own way. That's the difference”
“Messi adjusted to Guardiola's plan and not the other way around"
"Guardiola had him playing for the benefit of the team but recent coaches have adapted to Messi too much instead of protecting team spirit"
"“Look at Aguero. He played for himself until Guardiola changed him and now moves when he’s supposed to. That’s the art of coaching.”
Of course it takes a Van Gaal, a man who speaks his mind all the time and does not censure himself, to hear the truth in a year when Messi broke records and went later on to win Ballon d'Or.
How come?
Messi won UCL and Barca was arguably the best team in Europe ONLY when Messi was not the 'leader' 'carrier' 'captain', but he was one great start among the many (Xavi, Iniesta and the well-oiled machine of Pep / Suarez, Neymar and the MSN management of Lucho).
On the contrary he failed miserably when he was the sole star and posed as 'leader' 'captain', carrier of the team, and Barca was a mediocre side compared to the top European sides. Even in 18/19 when he was obsessed with UCL, he announced already in the summer that he wants it, and he put his best individual performances in UCL, we saw how it ended...
Van Gaal's interview from 2019 is always current and eye-opening for all fanboys suffering from Messi-delusion:
"He’s the best individual player in the world. I like him. But why hasn’t he won the Champions League for five years? As captain, you must ask yourself this"
"Guardiola won it with Barcelona because he had Messi and because he didn't let Messi play in his own way. That's the difference”
“Messi adjusted to Guardiola's plan and not the other way around"
"Guardiola had him playing for the benefit of the team but recent coaches have adapted to Messi too much instead of protecting team spirit"
"“Look at Aguero. He played for himself until Guardiola changed him and now moves when he’s supposed to. That’s the art of coaching.”
Of course it takes a Van Gaal, a man who speaks his mind all the time and does not censure himself, to hear the truth in a year when Messi broke records and went later on to win Ballon d'Or.
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Can't you read or has your bias and prejudice or even hate made you blind? I just showed you that he did more then enough in the return leg to get Barca through but was let down.
Saying his 2018-19 CL campaign was garbage when in fact it was by far the best CL performance that season (and probably the 2e best of his career)...
Just how biased can you be? Just how much of a hater can you be? You really shouldn't be allowed to post in this thread anymore.
Daniele
Member
Obviously that sickboy guy is right.
Behind the excuse of objective criticism, many users of this forum vent their frustration on all the players of Barcelona.
Nobody would dream of using terms like "garbage" to criticize a player they cheer for (in this case, a myth).
Here many do not enjoy Barcelona but just criticize to let off steam.
And even those who say that this is a time of crisis for Messi (but still support the player) are labeled as fanboys. Trying to pass the narrative that if you are not against Messi today you are against Barcelona.
And this is abject
Behind the excuse of objective criticism, many users of this forum vent their frustration on all the players of Barcelona.
Nobody would dream of using terms like "garbage" to criticize a player they cheer for (in this case, a myth).
Here many do not enjoy Barcelona but just criticize to let off steam.
And even those who say that this is a time of crisis for Messi (but still support the player) are labeled as fanboys. Trying to pass the narrative that if you are not against Messi today you are against Barcelona.
And this is abject
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
There's a lot of entitlement, loads of Barca fans feel like they are owed Champions League wins and if not everybody is garbage or to blame.
The fact the Messi has won 3 of his 6 Ballon d'Ors without winning the CL only shows how superior of a player he was in those years.
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