Lionel Messi - v7

JamDav1982 said:

More strawman... never said they 'had shit squad' or 'Barca battered them' other than in a couple of games.

I said Barca were better in league and got better of them in head to head and countered your poor point about Real struggling to beat smaller teams when better results vs Barca/Atletico could have seen them win it.

You are the one all over place who doesnt even know what you are arguing against.

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Look m8, all the above is fact, we know that Barca won the battle of the leagues and Madrid won the battle of the CLs. Its not in doubt, it's there in the record books. You seem to be deliberately missing the point, this is about the criticism (unfair imo) that Messi gets for Barca not doing better in the CL. Madrid have a better squad for big time moments/games that has been proved as fact, just look at their record in the CL, it's indisputable.

We're not talking about Barca's performances in La Liga we're discussing the CL games. The big occasions where the oppositin raise their game where you're playing against the best teams from all the leagues in Europe. It's th pinnacle of football. Barca were found wanting in that competition, and usually only by the finest of margins. Madrid have been the most succesful team in the CL because they have had multiple players turn up big moments for them right across the five years. Barca have not had players who have done that, hence why they have only been siuccessful once in what is it, 8/9 yrs. That is because they haven't had a squad good enough, haven't had the players to seize the moment, plain and simple.

Hey, stop me if you've heard this one before! But you bash onwith whatver argument you're trying t make. I've no idea!

Morten said:

I think if any club could pick between a league title and CL, they would pick CL, every single season, its just the bigger trophy.
That said, league titles are important, it would have felt a lot better if you just dropped point one more time during the 15/16 season, then we`d have been "proven" both domestically and in Europe back to back, instead of being seen as "CL-merchants", despite literally only ending up in 2nd place by 1 point that season(ok, 2 points because of h2h but still).

17/18 was genuine bad, but 15/16 was a 90 points season, so this "CL-merchant"-label during our 3-peat is not quite fair.

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15/16 was not quite so.
Final standings of the League do not say the whole truth, which is that we were the better side that year, and had a 10-pt lead before the Clasico.
We blew that, and then we had a lapse losing points in 3 games that should not have happened.
The fact that Madrid stayed in the race and pushed Barca to win all remaining games does not mean you were close football-wise, there was a significant gap between the two sides that year. Not to mention that the '16 CL was a joke (even more than the '18), not facing a single serious opponent until the final.

16/17 was inverted. Madrid had the better team by a margin in all competitions, and the fact that we pushed and forced you to make wins until the last match-day does not prove we were comparable that season at all.

sikkboy said:

Look m8, all the above is fact, we know that Barca won the battle of the leagues and Madrid won the battle of the CLs. Its not in doubt, it's there in the record books. You seem to be deliberately missing the point, this is about the criticism (unfair imo) that Messi gets for Barca not doing better in the CL. Madrid have a better squad for big time moments/games that has been proved as fact, just look at their record in the CL, it's indisputable.

We're not talking about Barca's performances in La Liga we're discussing the CL games. The big occasions where the oppositin raise their game where you're playing against the best teams from all the leagues in Europe. It's th pinnacle of football. Barca were found wanting in that competition, and usually only by the finest of margins. Madrid have been the most succesful team in the CL because they have had multiple players turn up big moments for them right across the five years. Barca have not had players who have done that, hence why they have only been siuccessful once in what is it, 8/9 yrs. That is because they haven't had a squad good enough, haven't had the players to seize the moment, plain and simple.

Hey, stop me if you've heard this one before! But you bash onwith whatver argument you're trying t make. I've no idea!

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Nah you miss the point that I am saying Messi and the team were not good enough in CL too often.

It was not down to the team not being good enough in terms of quality of player and letting Messi down as you try to make out.

Barca had better team than Real in some of those years and had better team than Atletico, Juve, Roma etc when eliminated so that point fails there.

Messi will have more focus in discussion as he is the main man team is built on and if he is poor it will have more discussion around it as it is for every top player in every team.

serghei said:

The best thing when Messi will be gone is we will lose these so-called Barca fans who are only here because of Messi. I have a feeling the forum quality will go up.

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God I am waiting for that moment.
No offense, but answering their posts these days feels like trying to prove that the earth is round

JamDav1982 said:

Nah you miss the point that I am saying Messi and the team were not good enough in CL too often.

It was not down to the team not being good enough in terms of quality of player and letting Messi down as you try to make out.

Barca had better team than Real in some of those years and had better team than Atletico, Juve, Roma etc when eliminated so that point fails there.

Messi will have more focus in discussion as he is the main man team is built on and if he is poor it will have more discussion around it as it is for every top player in every team.

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Good night!

Birdy said:

God I am waiting for that moment.
No offense, but answering their posts these days feels like trying to prove that the earth is round

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Where are you from btw? Just curious.

serghei said:

The best thing when Messi will be gone is we will lose these so-called Barca fans who are only here because of Messi. I have a feeling the forum quality will go up.

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Birdy said:

God I am waiting for that moment.
No offense, but answering their posts these days feels like trying to prove that the earth is round

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lame

Daniele said:

lame

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You're right it's also arrogant pish!

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In two year's time it will be Dest in every single state.

Alaska Rashford? How dit that happen?

JamDav1982 said:

You claim folk 'hate' Messi and have admitted it which is a lie for a start.

But you assume this 'hate' is the reason they criticise Messi when in fact you have it backwards and the criticism of the performances/attitude is what leads to the opinion of him.

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I specifically speak about Serghei. He, himself has admitted he dislikes Messi as a person. It is kind of hard to make
unbiased criticism about someone you dislike.
He is constantly taking for granted every piece of rumor that supports his predefined view and dismisses anything else.
You can see the same pattern in BBZ. He dislikes Puig ( for example, as he dislikes many) so much, that he will make up numbers or scenarios to justify why he is not good enough.

Is that criticism that leads to an opinion or pre existing world view thar leads to the criticism?

Sikboy and co says that Messi is not a huge part of our CL failures in the last few years.

Now, look at this:
1. during Pep, we were winning and Messi was a GOAT
2. Messi was winning both individual and team trophies:
CLs in 2009 and 2011
BDOrs in 09, 10, 11, 12
3. His first true real failure is La liga 2012 and Chelsea 2012.
Pep is also leaving a club.
In 2013, Tito is ill.
Barca gets beaten heavily, CR7 is emerging and winning Ballon D Or after Messi's 4 years in a row.
Now, since CR7 won it in 2013, the pressure is even bigger on Messi due to Messi vs CR7 media battle, and especially since he has also LOST the battle for the first time.
And then we have 2014:
1) Messi lost Ballon D Or in December of 2013
2) we got beaten by Bayern 7:0 in 2013
3) he is not the best in the world on an individual level and Barca is getting beaten as a club on a CL level.
4) also, World cup 2014 is coming and if he fails to win it, people will crucify him
And imo, he started to play worse since that moment.
Aldo, didn't he start to vommit during matches on a field in those days?

Now, when you sum it all, look at how Messi started to play (and sulk) in away matches since April of 2014:
2014:
Atletico 1:0

2015:
City 0:2, Suarez x2
Psg 1:3, Neymar, Suarez x2
Bayern 3:2, Neymar x2
Juventus 3:1, Rakitic, Suarez, Neymar

2016:
Arsenal 0:2, Messi, Messi (pen)
Atletico 2:0

2017:
Psg 4:0
Juve 3:0

2018:
Chelsea 1:1, Messi
Roma 3:0

2019:
Lyon 0:0
Man Utd 0:1, Shaw own goal
Liverpool 4:0

2020:
Napoli 1:1, Griezmann
Bayern 8:2, Suarez, Alaba own goal

World cup 2014
Switzerland 0:1, Di Maria
Belgium 0:1, Higuain
Nerherlands 0:0, 2:4
Germany 1:0

World cup 2018:
France 4:3, --

Copa America 2015
Colombia 0:0, penalties 4:5
Paraguay 1:6, --
Chile 0:0, penalties 4:1

Copa 2016:
Venezuela 1:4, Messi x1
Usa 0:4, Messi x1
Chile 0:0, penalties 4:2

Copa 2019:
Venezuela 0:2, --
Brasil 2:0

Since the April of 2014, Messi has played 29 KO matches on a neutral ground. (I didn't count CDR for obvious Mickey Mouse reasons, lol).
He scored 4 goals from an open play plus one pen.
He scored goals only on 4 matches out of 29 (Arsenal x2, Chelsea, Venezuela, Usa) and he didn't score against any of big teams.

He played 4 finals since then, 3 defeats, 0 goals.

Now, when we analyze his whole career, something happened mental wise with him in 2014 before the world cup.
As explained, imo, it is a mix of:
1. Media expectations
2. Cr7 Ballon D Or
3. Pressure to win WC with Argentina
4. Barcelona started to be mortal in a CL, unlike in Pep's years
5. He became a father in 2012 and 2015

And more or less, since then we have this walking-sulking Messi in away matches where he is dead from the moment we start to lose 0:1.

Mods why is this troll tolerated on this thread.I stopped reading at

3. His first true real failure is La liga 2012 and Chelsea 2012.

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Why is he trolling the thread with references to Ronaldo. He writes very similarly to a well know Ronaldo fanboy on a big Engosh fans forum. Not-stop anti-Messi agenda on a Barcelona forum. It's a shit look, it really is!!

sikkboy said:

Mods why is this troll tolerated on this thread.I stopped reading at
Why is he trolling the thread with references to Ronaldo. He writes very similarly to a well know Ronaldo fanboy on a big Engosh fans forum. Not-stop anti-Messi agenda on a Barcelona forum. It's a shit look, it really is!!

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Are you 9 years old or what?

Don't be a snowflake.

I have posted cold stats of all Messi's away/neutral KO matches since 2014, and stats are more or less horrible.

This is not Fc Barca/Fc Messi fanpage where only: omg, what a game, what a goal, Goat and similar posts are allowed.

If you can't handle the truth, there are plenty of delusional fanpages of every player all over the internet where everything is perfect.

If you want to live in that type of illusion, good luck.

** about Cr7, it is obvious that both Messi and Cr7 are egoistic and care about every single award, trophy, goal and record.

There is a reason why Messi never wants to be benched.
He wants to break all individual records.