Gaudi
Senior Member
Woow, I don't need to add anything, exactlllyy my point!
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Woow, I don't need to add anything, exactlllyy my point!
JohnN
Senior Member
Some don't get why we play that slow buildup kind of football isntead of rapid fire attacks, so let me illuminate you.
WE CANNOT DEFEND TO SAVE OUR LIVES, so the only way to not conceed 5 goals per game for us, is to keep the ball as long as posible and make minimal risky passes, even if that let's other temas organize better in defense and gives us less chances to score.
Given that FACT and the FACT that we cannot keep teams out of our net, even by playing this way, it should be obvious that with this set of midfielders and defenders, we better not play more direct, or we will get dismantled ever week.
WE CANNOT DEFEND TO SAVE OUR LIVES, so the only way to not conceed 5 goals per game for us, is to keep the ball as long as posible and make minimal risky passes, even if that let's other temas organize better in defense and gives us less chances to score.
Given that FACT and the FACT that we cannot keep teams out of our net, even by playing this way, it should be obvious that with this set of midfielders and defenders, we better not play more direct, or we will get dismantled ever week.
Coutinho is a bad fit here and requires arguably the best system in world football over the last 5 years and certainly the blueprint for the next decade or more in order to be a success. That to me shows an average player, which is more my point. It was also meant to just be a bit of a laugh.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Cou played good in the opening matches when he was a CAM.
Whoscored ratings:
Villareal 4:0, 8.09
Celta 3:0, 7.59
After that he is moved more to the left and he started to play weaker.
Yet, interesting, out of last 7-8 matches, his 2 best matches came without Messi on a field, against Kiev and Ferencvaros.
What can Cou do tonight?
He plays out of position.
Teammates are not looking for him but for Messi.
He is not allowed to play fast through balls, but he needs to slow down, wait for Messi, pass to Messi and then Messi will try a hero ball.
Basically, the whole team is built up this way currrntly:
1. Win the ball
2. Play it forward
3. When you come close to the box, don't shoot or make risks but wait for Messi to come.
4. When Messi comes, he will take the ball somewhere at CM-CAM position in a central area (not left or right).
5. Then he will try a random pointless 1-2 or through ball.
6. As FinBarcelona counted last time, his success ratio is something like 8 out of 20-22, in terms of good hero balls vs lost balls/total.
You say that Cou is shit.
Remember how Frenkie played as CM-CAM in some matches.
He looked horrible.
Is he that bad? No.
Coutinho is a CAM for faster and risker teams.
Again, Cou and Griezz have my respect for not licking Messi's ass and for not passing the ball to him in every single action.
Or Coutinho needs the best system in the world to perform. Neymar in 16/17 had a similar issue: deteriorating midfield, Messi hanging around in the middle of the park, and a declining Suarez placing less effort in the game. What did he do? Rotate around in circles and constantly side pass? No, he took charge and essentially bombed from midfield to the final third almost every game. Constantly attempted 1 on 1s and succeeded, had the best or 2nd/3rd (usually behind Messi) dribble stats in Europe, and one of the highest key pass rates too, comparable to KdB.
Who was criticising him almost every game? BBZ.
And no, don't tell me Neymar was capable of beating 4-5 players every game because the team was still good. lol Look at his through passes and lobbed balls in 2016/2017, it was usually to one or two players making a run (Suarez, sometimes Messi, and a fullback.) That's exactly what Coutinho had in 18/19, and he sucked. That's exactly what he had in Bayern, he sucked.
Yes admittedly our options in 20/21 are worse, but runs are STILL being made. Like are we watching the same games? Yes we're not City, Liverpool, Bayern, or whatever...but opportunities to create chances still exist and the reason why some of us think Coutinho isn't special is because he rarely takes them.
Like explain Messi still being able to create so many chances? Are you seriously going to go with "the team only cares about football when Messi has the ball" dumb ass narrative? How is FdJ able to create a couple of beautiful chances every other game? How is it that when Dembele was fit, he was making a huge impact by creating multiple chances a game? What about Ansu Fati's lay offs and crosses near and in the area? Did that only happen because they were apparently all aimed at Messi? Then how exactly were Coutinho and Griezmann sitters from the exact same players I've mentioned? Riqui Puig who only features in cameos makes stronger impacts than Coutinho by making several key passes within 30mins.
Coutinho can't do it because he doesn't have the ability, not because "the team sucks lol." He was LITERALLY SHIT in Bayern and you guys are still having arguments over this. Like what the fuck? Take the L and give up on him jesus.
It's insane isn't it? You can bring up Coutinho's heatmaps for Liverpool and Barcelona being really similar. You can bring up several highlight videos of Coutinho in Liverpool essentially playing in a Neymar-esque winger role. You can mention the fact that he was tried as a number 10 under Kovac and Flick, where in the former they used him to phase Muller out and he underperformed and was later benched by a performing Muller under Flick. You can mention all of that and...
"Coutinho sucks because he isn't playing CAM"
lol
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feggydinho
Senior Member
This is spot on, but I dont really trust Coutinho (Seems to always be looking for how to shoot)
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Coutinho looked good for Liverpool in multiple systems both before and after Klopp arrived and has done with Brazil also.
So that doesnt hold up.
He completely does not suit the current slow, static style built for Messi in which has to be part of structure for other players that cant/wont press.
Even then he should have been better but to make out he has only thrived for Klopp is wrong and Klopp used him from LW, AM and even deeper in CM.
I don't think he looked good in multiple systems. He played very well for Klopp and actually produced numbers, he merely looked good for other managers but didn't produce very good numbers. As someone above said he was poor for Bayern that play a similar system, what's the thinking behind that one? He's looked good for Brazil in a handful of games. That handful includes the copa america where brazil are by far the most dominant team. Even Argentina doesn't come close on a squad level.
We played coutinho lw/lm and lcm too, he just hasn't lived up to it. He's not capable of playing in different systems. Nothing terrible about that but it is terrible for barca when we spend 130m+ on him.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
He is capable of playing in different systems and has shown it before and after Klopp arrived as I said and for Brazil. Klopps sytems when he first arrived was not what it was by time Coutinho left. Klopp played lots of systems and Coutinho fitted them.
Bayern didnt really suit him all that much either as Muller better as that pressing no10 to support striker and wide players were more wingers which he will never be.
Barca playing him LW/LM doesnt make your point as those roles are in slow static teams where he has to keep rigid as others are given the freedom. Coutinho always looks better when game is fast and chaotic and has a bit more freedom.
The error was Barca buying him to play with this team and thinking would repeat his form. Even then he should have been better though.
Hope we sell him in January
CatalinR10
Senior Member
"Coutinho can function in multiple systems"
"Barcelona is too slow for him and it's too rigid as it doesn't allow him freedom"
Even though heatmaps show the freedom he has in Barcelona is similar to the freedom he had in Liverpool. In fact he covered more area in 18/19 than he did in 17/18.
"Barcelona is too slow for him."
And when people bring up Bayern, now the excuse is that it requires too much pressing and too much support for the striker? Also Gnabry, Coman, and Sane are quite versatile. Able to run out wide to stretch the defense, able make runs during counter attacks, they cut inside (like Coutinho), and they also function as inside forwards - especially Gnabry.
Additionally, there's a 17/18 year old player playing more akin to a "classical number 10" down the middle right now, and he's doing pretty fine. Why is capable of doing it, and not Coutinho?
Seriously listen to yourself: it's not the right type of LW role for him, it's the right type of LM role for him, it's not the right type of number 10 role for him, the team is too slow for him, Bayern's no. 10 role requires too much pressing for him, Coutinho needs runners to playmake but in Bayern with all the wingers and strikers in the world...it required too much 'supporting' for him?
The number of buts being made for this player is absolutely ridiculous...
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