Lionel Messi - v7

serghei

serghei

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
Messi's been spoiled by 2 things:

1) Extraterrestrial talent on the ball which means when he was in his prime, he didn't have to compensate much using guile/tactics/strategy/extra effort.
2) Too much success too soon. By the age of 25, this guy had 4 Ballon D'Or, a 91 goal season, multiple LLs, 3 CL (or 2.5).

This is why he's still harboring delusions that he doesn't need to adapt.
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It's not those things that trigger his bad side to this degree. It's a lack of human character to deal with them and control them. He wasn't that hindered by those personality traits (which, let's face it, are kind of meh on multiple terms - leadership, work ethic, moral fiber etc.), because he was in his physical prime and he had outrageous talent. But they showed through as he aged and lost the spark.

But I blame the club and his fans more than him. They adulated him too much, when he should have been given better guidance.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
te amo barca said:
Miss the times he would vomit on the field, good days. He was so good back then
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I completely differentiated that Messi from this one. Almost treat it as a different player. It's like a fighter that in his prime was world champion and is now fighting in his 40s with grey hair and a beer belly, and is being tossed around by younger lesser fighters.
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
serghei said:
It's not those things that trigger his bad side to this degree. It's a lack of human character to deal with them and control them. He wasn't that hindered by those personality traits (which, let's face it, are kind of meh on multiple terms - leadership, work ethic, moral fiber etc.), because he was in his physical prime and he had outrageous talent. But they showed through as he aged and lost the spark.

But I blame the club and his fans more than him. They adulated him too much, when he should have been given better guidance.
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"It's a lack of human character to deal with them and control them"

But that's my point...he didn't even know he had flaws because he had it so good (insane personal success, team success, all time great teammates).
 
Raketa10

Raketa10

Senior Member
Barcilliant said:
I never thought I'd say this BUT I will. At this moment in time Ronaldo has had the better career.
I think part of Messi's struggles is the fact that he doesn't know how to reinvent himself. He's still laboring under the illusion that he can beat five players and score.
It doesn't help that none of our managers seem to know what to do with him either. They just give him a free role and it destroys the team structure.
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Dude, Ronaldo can play as no.9 and Messi with 169 cm can't. Simple as that. The thing that Ronaldo will play until his forties as a CF, and Messi won't doesn't mean that he had a better career. Messi was by far superior player and both of them naturally declined according to their physical capabilities. You can't fight against nature, time and physical atributes.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
"It's a lack of human character to deal with them and control them"

But that's my point...he didn't even know he had flaws because he had it so good (insane personal success, team success, all time great teammates).
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It's the cult of power here. Some persons who have some human flaws will do worse things with powers than others. I'm not comparing Messi with some criminal lol, but there's a selfishness in Messi that is unbecoming of a club legend.

The club should've put a stop to these tendencies early on. There's some boundaries in the club that are fixed, and should exist no matter what. We've accepted Messi stepping on those boundaries because he's Messi. That's a failure on club level and club identity here.

Raketa10 said:
Dude, Ronaldo can play as no.9 and Messi with 169 cm can't. Simple as that. The thing that Ronaldo will play until his forties as a CF, and Messi won't doesn't mean that he had a better career. Messi was by far superior player and both of them naturally declined according to their physical capabilities. You can't fight against nature, time and physical atributes.
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And Ronaldo is more hardworking, more dedicated, better professional. Which makes him a better athlete. Athletes keep their shape longer than lazy players who walk constantly.

It's not only about the height and their position on the field. Ronaldo is more competitive than Messi. Wants it more, and is willing to put the hours more than Messi.
 
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KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
serghei said:
It's the cult of power here. Some persons who have some human flaws will do worse things with powers than others. I'm not talking about really bad human things, but there's a selfishness in Messi that is unbecoming of a club legend.

The club should've put a stop to these tendencies early on.
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The only club who could have reigned him in through his career is RM. Just like they did with CR7. They can do that because they have a mountain of a legacy before the Messi/CR7 era. Maybe Bayern also with their team mentality.
 
Raketa10

Raketa10

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
Messi's been spoiled by 2 things:

1) Extraterrestrial talent on the ball which means when he was in his prime, he didn't have to compensate much using guile/tactics/strategy/extra effort.
2) Too much success too soon. By the age of 25, this guy had 4 Ballon D'Or, a 91 goal season, multiple LLs, 3 CL (or 2.5).

This is why he's still harboring delusions that he doesn't need to adapt.
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Some of you don't get it. His type of body is the reason for that and not his lack of adaptation. Unbelievable. :facepalm:
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
The only club who could have reigned him in through his career is RM. Just like they did with CR7. They can do that because they have a mountain of a legacy before the Messi/CR7 era. Maybe Bayern also with their team mentality.
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I don't know, but Barca being weaker mentally than Madrid showed with Messi. No way Madrid tolerate some of the stuff Messi pulled at Barca. You can tell which is the more successful club by looking how Madrid handled Ronaldo and how Barca handled Messi.

Not only Madrid got more CLs out of Ronaldo in the same timeframe Messi was at Barca. But they also sold him instead of giving up to his demands, and turn a profit :lol: by doing that. Great professional management of a star and possibly the greatest player in the club's history.

Compare it to Barca giving up to Messi's shenanigans, and making him incredibly overpaid even at the sight of huge financial troubles. Night and day. You have some clowns who want to be presidents and advertise getting Neymar to please Messi. :lol:
 
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Givenchy

Givenchy

Senior Member
xxxxxx said:
Well, he doesn't really have a good supporting cast. He's always had some type of help in the past. This season.... he just hasn't got it. With the lack of motivation, with him not wanting to be here.... and with also Suarez leaving, which he was against, I feel he just doesn't trust his teammates enough. All those reasons will affect your performance. Not to mention, Barcelona's future is uncertain. We don't know what board we'll have in 2 months. We don't know what their sporting project will be. We'll have no money to rebuild properly. We don't really have a good manager in charge.

It does feel like he's playing like someone who knows he's only got 7 months left on his contract and he's just going through the motions. Mixed that with the reasons I've stated, it's going to affect his performance.

He has a tough choice. He's 34 next year. Does he stay and struggle with a rebuilding Barcelona and probably never win another trophy again. Or, does he go to another big team like City and win a few more trophies with a coach he likes?
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it could be a factor, sure, but i think hes also massively declined especially physically. him looking tired could easily be blamed on lack of motivation but we also saw this Messi in the world cup, something that no doubt he'd have 110% motivation to win

City might seem like a sure bet but at 34, imo he'll be totally exposed in the PL and i'd hate to see that ruin what has been an amazing career. Torres for example, while not in the same bracket as Messi, is more remembered for his meme like performances at Chelsea as opposed to how amazing he was for Liverpool - not saying Messi will end up like that but recency bias is a thing. The Pep-this version of Messi combo is also very overrated, would be very interesting to see Pep managing the monster he helped create.

PSG would be a good option imo. linking up with Neymar again, easier league and although theyre sus in Europe, only Bayern really stand out as clear favourites right now
 
N

Newcomer

New member
te amo barca said:
Also it's mildly frustrating to see him try to score a direct goal from a corner in every single game, sometimes more than once. Really wants that goal. I think even goalkeepers are aware of the fact he's going to shoot now. The uber rare goals from corners work because the GKs don't expect a shot from there, but what's the point when you're trying it every time?
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Also known as the Di Maria special. Maybe it is some kind of fetish from those Argentine players.
 
Raketa10

Raketa10

Senior Member
serghei said:
And Ronaldo is more hardworking, more dedicated, better professional. Which makes him a better athlete. Athletes keep their shape longer than lazy players who walk constantly.

It's not only about the height and their position on the field. Ronaldo is more competitive than Messi. Wants it more, and is willing to put the hours more than Messi.
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I absolutely disagree. You can't EVER reach the level Messi did if you are not hardworking and 100% dedicated. You are talking a complete and utter nonsense. Messi wants it as much as Ronaldo but they are different in many ways. What Leo did in his prime Ronaldo can only dream about. The amount of disrespect some people are showing towards the best player of all time and the icon of the club is unbelievable.

We all agree that it's best for all sides to go separate ways after this season but a true Barca fan would never write things you do on a daily basis. Expecting from a 34y old guy to perform lime he did in his twenties is laughable. He brought this club way more trophies than anyone before him. Of course he didn't do it alone, no one can. This is a team sport remember? He was the best of the best and he deserves more respect from a Barca community even in his decline.
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Raketa10 said:
I absolutely disagree. You can't EVER reach the level Messi did if you are not hardworking and 100% dedicated. You are talking a complete and utter nonsense. Messi wants it as much as Ronaldo but they are different in many ways. What Leo did in his prime Ronaldo can only dream about. The amount of disrespect some people are showing to the best player of all time and an icon of the club you support is disgusting.

We all agree that it's best for all sides to go separate ways after this season but a true Barca fan would never write things you do on a daily basis.
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Yes you can. If you are that talented. I'm talking hardworking and dedication when compared to Ronaldo, probably the best in these areas, not some burger flipper at McDonalds.

Messi doesn't want it anywhere near as much as Ronaldo. Way off base here.

It's actually a compliment to Messi's natural ability that, in his prime, he dominated a supreme athlete like Ronaldo who was desperate and obsessed with being better than him.
 
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