Lionel Messi - v7

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
Maradona waa lucky to have great team mates but his performamces were also outstanding. The problem is we never saw that kind of performances from Messi in WCs. 2018 he was bad, 2014 good in group stage but only in scoring. 2010 was his best WC if we look his overall performance, he dribbled like crazy and has created so so many chances but was unlucky. His best argentinia tournament so far was 2016.
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
Fati_Future_BallonDor said:
Maradona waa lucky to have great team mates but his performamces were also outstanding. The problem is we never saw that kind of performances from Messi in WCs. 2018 he was bad, 2014 good in group stage but only in scoring. 2010 was his best WC if we look his overall performance, he dribbled like crazy and has created so so many chances but was unlucky. His best argentinia tournament so far was 2016.
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Messi won most MOTM awards, completed most dribbles (third in history), created most chance for his team in 2014 world cup. Surely he deserved to be the best player of tournament.
He was outstanding in 2015 copa america.
Oh yeah, you mention Messi in 2010 world cup. He was insanely good till the match vs Germany. People may say he didnt score any goal in 2010 world cup but forget how dangerous he was,just could not find the net (his game vs Greece for example). He completed most dribbles (32 dribbles), created 3,2 chances per match for his team... Argentina in 2010 could have better team than 2014 but then their coach left player like Zanetti, Samuel, Riquelme, Cambiasso at home, played a horrible tactic. Oh yeah, their coach was Maradona.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
George_Costanza said:
I don't need to read articles to know about Argentinian football! lol 1986 team mostly Maradona +10, his teammates became well known after the world cup (such as Burruchaga), only Valdano was known and he retired from football a year after the WC. I have seen 1986 world cup maybe 50 times! You are just ignorant about football.
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That is a myth.

That Argentina team in 1986 had a lot of players that had won Copa Libertadores in years prior in a time when the region was as strong as europe if not stronger.

They had a very solid team and legendary defenders like Ruggeri at the back who is held as one of their all time great defenders.

Far better and all round more solid team than it is now. Whether they became more well know after they win WC is irrelevant.
 
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eaman

Active member
Messi has never played with a top midfield behind him for Argentina. People always say they had so much world class talent but that was all up front really. It's very hard for attackers to look good never mind win without a good midfield behind them
 
George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
JamDav1982 said:
That is a myth.

That Argentina team in 1986 had a lot of players that had won Copa Libertadores in years prior in a time when the region was as strong as europe if not stronger.

They had a very solid team and legendary defenders like Ruggeri at the back who is held as one of their all time great defenders.

Far better and all round more solid team than it is now. Whether they became more well know after they win WC is irrelevant.
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South American leagues and Copa Libertadores considered very inferior at that time to Europe (more or less now), none of the Argentine NT players played in Europe except for Maradona and Valdano. The team didn't have a secondary stars (Burruchaga maybe the brightest), and required some spectacular goals by Maradona to advance.

Obviously Carlos Bilardo built the team to maximize Maradona's talent, like asking him to win the games almost on his own. Look at a typical formation from the 1986 WC:

3 CBs: Ruggeri, Brown, Cuciuffo
3 primarily defensive midfielders: Batista, Giusti, Burruchaga
Two wingbacks: Enrique, Olarticoechea
Maradona
One mobile forward: Valdano

I think most agree that Maradona 86 were the best World Cup performance to date.

gazzetta1.gif
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
South America was not considered inferior at the time other than more money in europe to attract some.

Those SA teams were beating the European teams more often than not when it came to playing in that version of club world cup which was taken seriously.

Much different now when the gap is big and players from all over the world are concentrated in europe. Not as was in past.

It is irrelevant that they did not play in europe. It does not mean the european teams were better or a higher standard. You are talking of a time when likes of Aberdeen were winning European trophies and Dundee United were eliminating Barcelona from Europe.

Maradona had a world cup better than any Messi has had and arguably best ever but that Argentina team were household names in SA.. winning the continental trophies and as good if not better than the top euorpean teams at that time.
 
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George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
JamDav1982 said:
South America was not considered inferior at the time other than more money in europe to attract some.

Those SA teams were beating the European teams more often than not when it came to playing in that version of club world cup which was taken seriously.

Much different now when the gap is big and players from all over the world are concentrated in europe. Not as was in past.

It is irrelevant that they did not play in europe. It does not mean the european teams were better or a higher standard. You are talking of a time when likes of Aberdeen were winning European trophies and Dundee United were eliminating Barcelona from Europe.

Maradona had a world cup better than any Messi has had and arguably best ever but that Argentina team were household names in SA.. winning the continental trophies and as good if not better than the top euorpean teams at that time.
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Nonsense! Only Batista with Argentinos Juniors 85 and Ruggeri with River Plate 86 won the SA continental trophies. None considered world class at the time. And compare that with Argentina NT from 2006 until now. lol
 
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eaman

Active member
George_Costanza said:
South American leagues and Copa Libertadores considered very inferior at that time to Europe (more or less now), none of the Argentine NT players played in Europe except for Maradona and Valdano. The team didn't have a secondary stars (Burruchaga maybe the brightest), and required some spectacular goals by Maradona to advance.



Obviously Carlos Bilardo built the team to maximize Maradona's talent, like asking him to win the games almost on his own. Look at a typical formation from the 1986 WC:

3 CBs: Ruggeri, Brown, Cuciuffo
3 primarily defensive midfielders: Batista, Giusti, Burruchaga
Two wingbacks: Enrique, Olarticoechea
Maradona
One mobile forward: Valdano

I think most agree that Maradona 86 were the best World Cup performance to date.

gazzetta1.gif
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Was it more about spectacular moments in that world cup from maradona or was he brilliant throughout every game? I have only seen some of the full england match and all the goals really. Supposedly he wasnt great in the final besides that one pass.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
eaman said:
Was it more about spectacular moments in that world cup from maradona or was he brilliant throughout every game? I have only seen some of the full england match and all the goals really. Supposedly he wasnt great in the final besides that one pass.
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Bit of both. His moments that everyone knows about were spectacular but he was also their best attacking player and looked on edge of creating something all the time.

Was heavily protected by referees though and some of the decisions Argentina and he got were scandalous. Could barely touch Maradona without refs giving a FK.

Argentina were a very solid side and best overall in tournament. The final showed that when Matheus got the better of Maradona the whole match bar one time he got free and assisted winner.

Even with Maradona quiet the Argentina team were the better side and should have been 3/4-0 up rather than 2-2. They were the better team overall.
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
eaman said:
Was it more about spectacular moments in that world cup from maradona or was he brilliant throughout every game? I have only seen some of the full england match and all the goals really. Supposedly he wasnt great in the final besides that one pass.
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He was brillant throughout every game and decisive. Argentina scored 14 goals: Maradona had 5 goals and 5 assists, dribllings, chances created, key passes,.... out of this world.
Beside the statistics, almost sure Maradona had the best performance ever in a WC.
The final simply shown one simple thing: soccer is a team sport, you can't win without a good team.
For me the best team of WC 1986 was France.
 
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Marie-Antoinette

Banned
snowy said:
wowz so I just did a Google "what if" search. Glad I did! check it out

https://the18.com/soccer-videos/maradona-and-18-year-old-lionel-messi-had-some-fun-argentina-celebrity-game

they actually stopped the game for the old man. Probably an exhibition or a friendly

Some cool dribbles and triangles in there. And you can see already at 18, he packed some serious oooomph in his long shot
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Wow! Awesome discovery. Never saw this before. All smiles.
Maradona still looked good here.
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
George_Costanza said:
Nonsense! Only Batista with Argentinos Juniors 85 and Ruggeri with River Plate 86 won the SA continental trophies. None considered world class at the time. And compare that with Argentina NT from 2006 until now. lol
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Argentina has not won anything since 1993, compare to 1986 when they won 1978 world cup 8 years before.

Maradona has the best world cup performance,better than Messi but also his teammates were better than Messi's during that campaign. Maradona always said how good his team was during 1986 tournament and even said he was more lucky than Messi though he usually changes his words. Mario Kempes also said something similiar.
 
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eaman

Active member
MagIX said:
He was brillant throughout every game and decisive. Argentina scored 14 goals: Maradona had 5 goals and 5 assists, dribllings, chances created, key passes,.... out of this world.
Beside the statistics, almost sure Maradona had the best performance ever in a WC.
The final simply shown one simple thing: soccer is a team sport, you can't win without a good team.
For me the best team of WC 1986 was France.
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Did you watch all those matches? Also are those stats about dribbles key passes and chances created officially written down or are they just something you heard about? I'm a bit sceptical only because I recently watched supposedly one of maradonas greatest napoli performances in a 3 nil uefa cup win over juventus and wasnt really impressed. But listen that was only mentioned in some article and might be the view of alot of people
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
eaman said:
Was it more about spectacular moments in that world cup from maradona or was he brilliant throughout every game? I have only seen some of the full england match and all the goals really. Supposedly he wasnt great in the final besides that one pass.
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He was outstanding from A-Z. Only in the final which Germany managed to isolate him for most of the match. Argentina still scored two goals and he provided the winning assist that lead to glory.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
George_Costanza said:
Nonsense! Only Batista with Argentinos Juniors 85 and Ruggeri with River Plate 86 won the SA continental trophies. None considered world class at the time. And compare that with Argentina NT from 2006 until now. lol
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You have no idea who was 'considered world class at time' and as I said it doesnt matter if others catch up after.

The Argentina teams were up there as strongest club sides in world at the time as were other top SA teams.

It is nonsense to make out it was 'Maradona and 10 others' and he won on own. Comes across as clueless cliches and not having any real idea.

Argentina with Maradona quiet were the better team in final. They were the best team in tournament and not just because of Maradona even if he gave all time world cup performance.
 
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