KingLeo10
Senior Member
Olympics aren't until the summer. You can ease up on the mental gymnastics if that's what you gleaned from it.
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La Liga 2019/20
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
Olympics aren't until the summer. You can ease up on the mental gymnastics if that's what you gleaned from it.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
The sacrifice being he receives slim to no recognition for those CL victories. The order is CR7 (by far and rightly so), Ramos and Modric, and then Marcelo, Navas, Kroos, Carvajal in the mix.
Benz and Bale are marginalized when both have come up with huge goals in the latter stages of the competition.
Maybe you should read that my post was strictly about football instead of referencing salaries which have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
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El Gato
Villarato!
What nonsense. Their goals are recognised and appreciated. What you seemingly ignore is that he was putting up absolutely shocking numbers for 2 seasons while being relentlessly protected by Marca and for YEARS Perez systematically removed his competition at the striker position by signing players who would never be able to unseat him up top. And even when one of them played a better season in 16/17, he was told he would not be receiving more trust as a leading striker and was subsequently sold.
He's the kind of guy whose 2 goals and 1 assist quite literally are treated as sufficient to forget uselessness in key moments i.e. Valencia at Mestalla 16/17, PSG and many others.
He's the kind of guy whose 2 goals and 1 assist quite literally are treated as sufficient to forget uselessness in key moments i.e. Valencia at Mestalla 16/17, PSG and many others.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
"Their goals are recognized and appreciated". You want to provide any evidence to back that up?
The shocking numbers are in a system that was catered towards CR7, who averaged anywhere from 7-10 shots a game in that decade. Separating Benz and CR7, Benz has actually managed to outscore him last season and so far this season. What's your argument against that? Obviously, Benz is not even a third of the player CR7 was. That's not even the discussion. My point is that you're quick to highlight the negatives while sweeping under the rug the positives.
Apply similar standards and you'll see that Ramos has cost you about a dozen Clasicos (and subsequent Ligas) and at least 1 CL tie (Ajax). But of course you don't have the same zeal there.
Andrew M
New member
What recognition does he need? When discussing Benzema Perez has always referred to him as the best striker in the world. I'm sure he feels loved by both Zidane and Perez. How the hell is Benz marginalized? He is the first name on the team sheet. Bale is a completely different matter.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
There's a few metrics.
Appreciated by Perez and Zidane? I will concede that, especially Zidane.
Appreciated by 'third party' evaluators, namely UEFA, FIFA, and other awards? Less than he should be, given his CL goal tally. Suarez receives more buzz when I can't say he's been better than Benz in this specific competition. And Suarez has won less here too.
Appreciated by the fans? I would point you towards the RM forums, BigSoccer being one of them. Was perennially dunked on those for being a 20-30 goal striker, until about 18/19 when people realized he could push 30+ without CR7 hogging the shots.
El Gato
Villarato!
No. I'm highlighting the negatives, because Marca for years ran a propaganda campaign (much like the negative one against Bale) that did anything to protect his standing as a key, unopposed and undisputed #9 at Real Madrid who could not be improved upon. He's quite literally the reason Lewandowski was twice contacted about Real Madrid and on the first occasion he got told he'd be a substitute only. Which is bonkers.
There were numerous interviews by backroom staffers, for example one before the match against Legia Warsaw in 2016, who all indicate he is Florentino Perez's "adopted son". Endless articles whenever he went on a run of a few goals against bottom 10 sides or scored against scrubs in the Champions League and then absolutely zero coverage when he lets the team down in a position where he HAS TO score one of the few chances RM got in a game.
The tendency for Benzema to score against much inferior opponents was also highlighted in the recent Lewandowski thread where Benzema has amassed ~80% of his CL tally by scoring against Malmo, Shakhtar, Schalke etc.
So if you're looking for some 'unfair' treatment of Benzema you'll not find it here. What you might see as lack of appreciation came when as soon as he became untouchable following 13/14 campaign where any stretch of bad form was swept under the rug. For years he was a passenger resorting to enable Cristiano while not putting away the few chances that he actually gets. A very definition of a passenger.
Also how's he not appreciated by the various award bodies? He was nominated for Ballon DOr while winning sweet sodall and scraping 2nd in the Pichichi ranking. Fairly sure he was in UEFA's Team of The Year at least one of the successful Zidane seasons.
There were numerous interviews by backroom staffers, for example one before the match against Legia Warsaw in 2016, who all indicate he is Florentino Perez's "adopted son". Endless articles whenever he went on a run of a few goals against bottom 10 sides or scored against scrubs in the Champions League and then absolutely zero coverage when he lets the team down in a position where he HAS TO score one of the few chances RM got in a game.
The tendency for Benzema to score against much inferior opponents was also highlighted in the recent Lewandowski thread where Benzema has amassed ~80% of his CL tally by scoring against Malmo, Shakhtar, Schalke etc.
So if you're looking for some 'unfair' treatment of Benzema you'll not find it here. What you might see as lack of appreciation came when as soon as he became untouchable following 13/14 campaign where any stretch of bad form was swept under the rug. For years he was a passenger resorting to enable Cristiano while not putting away the few chances that he actually gets. A very definition of a passenger.
Also how's he not appreciated by the various award bodies? He was nominated for Ballon DOr while winning sweet sodall and scraping 2nd in the Pichichi ranking. Fairly sure he was in UEFA's Team of The Year at least one of the successful Zidane seasons.
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
[youtube]SQC08B8k57U[/youtube]
First blood against the previous treble winners to take a 1-0 lead to Munich.
[youtube]mpoK9HB7rlI[/youtube]
AM 2-0 up at the Calderon, with all the tempo in the world looking to overturn that first leg deficit? Who puts in the dagger?
I won't even reference the goals v Bayern in the semis the season before or the CL final v Liverpool. Not spectacular? Sure. Big goals? Doubly so.
Definitely a passenger. If you reduce it to goals, CR7 scored in 1 out of those 4 CL finals in regulation. The 13-14 was garbage time 4-1 pen. In fact, Bale has more open play goals than CR7 across the finals. See the problem in reductionism?
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Andrew M
New member
Example of Perez's love: "I have read and heard in some media outlets for years that Madrid need to sign a striker when reality clearly shows that Karim Benzema is the best forward in the world."
You must also bare in mind that in 2017-18 he was pretty terrible. He hasn't been consistently excellent over the years.
He's definitely a Real Madrid legend imo, but I would not say he's as good as Lewa nor Suarez in the pecking order over the last 10 years
El Gato
Villarato!
Intentionally ignoring the core message of the post...
Where was Benzema the rest of 16/17? Have you analysed ANYTHING about his performance long term or just go back to the few things he's ever done well to sweep the rest under the rug like all Benzema10 fanboys do? That ATM highlight is quite literally the most he's done for Real that season (and the following one). Got hilariously outscored by Morata coming off the bench.
I see the problem. Funny how you don't see the other side of the coin and chalk up his wank finish on display for years and systematic marginalisation of his competitors as 'the problem'.
PS
Completely forgot that quote from Perez. That was Grade-A comedy at the time. Best #9 in the world
Absolutely zero nepotism there. None
Where was Benzema the rest of 16/17? Have you analysed ANYTHING about his performance long term or just go back to the few things he's ever done well to sweep the rest under the rug like all Benzema10 fanboys do? That ATM highlight is quite literally the most he's done for Real that season (and the following one). Got hilariously outscored by Morata coming off the bench.
I see the problem. Funny how you don't see the other side of the coin and chalk up his wank finish on display for years and systematic marginalisation of his competitors as 'the problem'.
PS
Completely forgot that quote from Perez. That was Grade-A comedy at the time. Best #9 in the world
Absolutely zero nepotism there. None
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
Intentionally ignoring the core message of the post...
Where was Benzema the rest of 16/17? That ATM highlight is quite literally the most he's done for Real that season (and the following one). Got hilariously outscored by Morata coming off the bench.
I see the problem. Funny how you don't see the other side of the coin and chalk up his wank finish on display for years and systematic marginalisation of his competitors as 'the problem'.
PS
Completely forgot that quote from Perez. That was Grade-A comedy at the time. Best #9 in the world
Absolutely zero nepotism there. None
I gave you 4 big game moments in the semis and beyond. His competitor strikers from clubs of similar stature: Lewa's had 1 (RM 12/13). Suarez 2 (Juve final, Liverpool SF). Those 4 moments are potentially the difference between 4 in 5 CLs and 2-3 in 5 CLs.
If Messi doesn't miss the Chelsea pen, Barca 99% wins back to back CLs for instance. So yes, big moments outweigh meaningless Liga games.
Spare me the Perez thoughts as the apex of evidence. Barto thinks Valverde is the ideal coach for Barcelona (contract extension after Roma LMAO) and would profess his love for Suarez given the chance. Yes, that means something but it doesn't hold too much weight.
El Gato
Villarato!
The only moments you could find mind you. Nobody ever took them away from Benzema anyway. What you seem to not understand is that showing up in big games is a base level expectation. One he didn't fulfill consistently or anywhere near as consistently as CR. And you're fluffing your way through explanation as to why he wasn't more noticeable by employing your favourite 'reductionism' and putting it on Benzema 'sacrificing' his performance to make CR look good. Too amusing.
Yeah, no favoritism from Perez at all. Higuain leaves? Green Morata is the chosen alternative. Morata subsequently sold to get game time. Who is brought in? Chicharito who never received a chance until he saw us through the quarters in 14/15 and would have still remained on the bench had Benzema not broken his foot. 15/16? Left with fucking Jese and Borja Mayoral as competitors, which was a resounding squad mistake that cost us the league. 16/17 Perez realised "yeah, we need a striker don't we" but who does he bring in? Morata. Because it's the safe option and it doesn't create friction. What happens? Benzema is shit for the entire autumn, has an all-time garbage performance at Mestalla in August to kick off the season, Real Madrid B carry our scoring for much of the year when CR isn't up to par. What does he receive as thanks? A one way ticket to Chelsea. And Benzema is back to competing with Mayoral. Which costs us the league - AGAIN.
There was never a fair competition at #9 position since Higuain was sold. Because the board with Perez at the helm were never open to the idea anybody could do Benzema's job as well as he does. Which is ludicrous assumption.
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
Never claimed he was or had to be. For this reason, I explicitly stated CR7 was 3 times the player Benz was a few posts earlier.
No, just giving you an example of how reductionism functions because you continue to harp about - "Well he only has 4 big moments in the CL semis/final". That's 2 more than Suarez and 3 more than Lewa, lol. Messi has 6-7 if we're keeping count and CR7 probably 7-8. How many do you want? 10?.
All irrelevant except Higuain. Morata and Jese are hardly standard bearers at anything. Benz showed more at Lyon alone than anything Morata or Jese have put together outside of RM. With regards to Higuain, I rate him just a shade below Benz. Higgy's the more prolific scorer and Benz is clearly the better performer in big CL ties. It's not like Higgy didn't have the supporting cast, either. He was in Mourinho's RM and then that 16-17 and 17-18 Juve team.
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El Gato
Villarato!
If you can get in position to have 10, sure, have 10.
Precisely, all were deliberate hires generally inferior to the staring striker and Morata, who was arguably the best of them all managed to outplay and outscore him in the one season he played very well. What happens? Gets told he will not be received on even terms despite performance contrast. Meritocracy at its finest with regards to striker position.
Benzema was brought in, petted, vetted and protected by both the board and Marca for years. Never managing to sign Villa in 2009 or Lewandowski later on to improve upon Benzema is the biggest regret any RM fan should have with regards to countless league campaigns, which suffered because Benzema did not pick up the slack on his regularity. And having been accommodated without a hint of pressure upon his status because of the kind of players Perez signed to compete with him, we also had no plan B to his poor goal return.
All Benzema is, is a very good player who suffers from being played as a #9 in a world dominated by 4-3-3s. He's at the Rooney level with poorer forward arsenal and 3-4 big moments that his entire reputation is riding on, not higher. Always has been. Not to mention he's prone to making cretin life choices, which cost him his national team spot. And RM would have been far better off if they had Lewa or even Falcao as our core player with Benzema rotating in.
Messi983
Senior Member
Stunning player.
[youtube]SIvCpj-x4Ow[/youtube]
Nice goal by Munir too.
What a legend!
It's apparently his first hat-trick in professional career.And some people here think players are semi-retired at 29.
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