FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
This would be starting rebuild. We wouldn't win much.
Our XI for 2019/20
- Thread starter Centauri B
- Start date
This would be starting rebuild. We wouldn't win much.
LABarcaFan
New member
If you are thinking about the CL, maybe not, but for La Liga and Copa del Rey, this team has great chances. Of course, it will depend on what kind of players Real will buy in the summer.
Our team is in so bad situation right now that it will probably take 2-3 years to rebuild it completely and think about big trophies. We all have to understand that.
Messi983
Senior Member
We won't win much with this finished team either. I'm all for a rebuild but changing 7 starters in one summer won't work. We've seen how much even proven players like Griezmann and FDJ struggle to adapt to our system and younger/less experienced players would need even more time.
I don't like the players [MENTION=23849]LABarcaFan[/MENTION] suggested.
1. De Vrij/Romagnoli - first one is too old IMO and I don't think Italians adapt well playing in Barça/La Liga in general.
2. Digne - I like him but don't think he's good enough to be a starter for us. He would also be expensive and why would he come back to be Alba's backup again? As I've said in another thread as much as I'd like to see Alba gone he won't leave and as long as he's here he'll be a starter because otherwise he'll start to bitch and whine and his amigos also won't be happy.
3. Depay - He has his career back on track in Lyon but I think he's one of those players who just doesn't have mentality to make it in a top club. He's also coming off a serious injury. If we'll go for a Lyon player it should be Aouar who can play as a CM/AMC and also LW.
4. Matheus Fernandes - he hasn't played a single minute yet for Valladolid and he also didn't play much in his previous club so I believe he'll be loaned again next year. But if he'll stay he'll be a squad player at best, I just don't think he can become an immediate starter.
5. Trincao - I like him but it's almost impossible he'll be a starter next year.
6. Mallen - haven't followed him much, he seems like a good talent but I'm always sceptical about forwards coming from Eredivisie. They can turn out to be the next RVN/Suarez/Ibra or fail/not meet expectations in better clubs/leagues like Bony, Finnbogason, Jansen, L. De Jong,... If I'd take a risk with one young striker from Eredivisie I'd get Myron Boadu over Mallen.
I also don't like a 4-2-3-1 formation with Messi as an AMC because it would put a lot of pressure on our defense. And even moreso having a lot of young/inexperienced players alongside him in forward positions (young players are usually still not disciplined enough to track back regularly which we need with Messi walking around most of the time).
snowy
New member
Leo as AMC in the 4231 is where he can contribute the most though. He's so surreal and dominating, even when injured, that it outweighs any eventual exploit risks in defense. Play a strong double pivot of dej + Camavinga/Partay/Soulmate type and drill the young wingers on defensive track back cover + a samurai quick draw striker upfront and it would be soooo much fun!
Either that ory fav suicidal 3412 with Leo again in AMC.
Just seems a mega waste to play the Maestro anywhere else.
He's so good, you could play him in CF or on the wings and he'd still kick butt but then, we would really need to make sure we'd have the players and the tactics to make max use of his talent. Imo
LABarcaFan
New member
As much as I respect other's personal opinion, I have to disagree with your post and I will explain why.
We need to start the rebuild ASAP, but not with over-paid big names like Neymar, Martinez and other. I can see that you don't like the idea of signing this players because they are not marked as a superstars. I could easily replace De Vrij and Romagnoli with Dayot Upamecano and K.Koulibaly, but that will hurt us in a big way because they are very expensive. Also, if we are going to rebuild, all our 32-33 y.o. players (besides Messi) should sit on the bench. I don't care if Jordi will like that or not. I don't care also about his amigos. They are not bigger than the club. I have chosen Lucas Digne because he has been here and is familiar with Barcelona. And he won't cost more than 40 M Euro.
You may be right about M.Fernandes, so in that case, you can replace him with someone else. Not a big deal. Trincao was signed for the purpose to became a starter for us and I think he has the qualities to be. Messi is a fake RW, Dembele is injured and most likely will be sold or loaned. Carles Perez was sold to Roma, so yes, Trincao will be a starter at the RW. As of M.Depay and D.Malen, they are both Netherlands nationals and one of the best in their clubs. Of course, La Liga is stronger league comparing to the Erdevisie, but they have some very famous teams as Ajax, PSV and Feenoord, who plays in the European championships every year. Again, for their price tag, these two are very very good choices.
And here we come to maestro Messi.
Since his fist 1-2 years, when he was a real right winger, Leo is playing wherever he wants. Lately, he has lost his speed, his dribble and even his trademark passes are not going through anymore, but he would be a starter till he can walk. Leo has NEVER played defense in his career. Don't expect him to do that at this age. That is why, I have FDJ and Fernandes to stop any opponent's counter-attacks. Mark my words. Any coach, whoever he is, will move him to ACM position to be the play-maker. This way, he wouldn't need to run that much and involve himself in physical contacts. That may even prolong his career.And we can not buy any goodt play-maker on the market as well. So Leo will be that player.
manuel blassi
Member
Do you think it is possible that Setien helps Coutinho find his old good form?
Anyway, we have to make some important decisions about our strikers..
We will have Messi, Griezmann, Fati, Braithwaite, Suarez, Dembele, also Trincao. There are also rumours about Martinez/Werner and Neymar. There are milions of different combinations, but at the end we cant have more than 6 of thoose players. Is it even possible that Griezmann leaves after just one season? What about Suarez?
I would go with:
Messi, Griezmann, Lautaro, Fati, Dembele, Braithwaite
De Jong, Arthur, Ruiz, Busquets, Vidal, *Roberto
Alba, Firpo, Upamecano, Lenglet, Pique, Todibo, Semedo, Roberto*
Coutinho, Rakitic, Umtiti should bring 130mio.
Anyway, we have to make some important decisions about our strikers..
We will have Messi, Griezmann, Fati, Braithwaite, Suarez, Dembele, also Trincao. There are also rumours about Martinez/Werner and Neymar. There are milions of different combinations, but at the end we cant have more than 6 of thoose players. Is it even possible that Griezmann leaves after just one season? What about Suarez?
I would go with:
Messi, Griezmann, Lautaro, Fati, Dembele, Braithwaite
De Jong, Arthur, Ruiz, Busquets, Vidal, *Roberto
Alba, Firpo, Upamecano, Lenglet, Pique, Todibo, Semedo, Roberto*
Coutinho, Rakitic, Umtiti should bring 130mio.
Messi983
Senior Member
I've pointed out many times we need to do a rebuild (hindsight is 20/20 but retrospectively I think we should've started one in 2017 after Neymar left but we've spend money on wrong players and probably even worse, we've renewed contracts of amigos) starting with getting rid of amigos. But this will be done in 2-3 years (if we're very lucky) not in one summer. You can't just buy 7 new players and get them in the starting lineup. Everyone needs time to adapt individually and then players also need time to get a chemistry and football understanding between them (and coaching staff). While I'd gladly bench (or even better sell so we wouldn't have unhappy players around) most of our veterans this is just a wishful thinking and so is your lineup. If you think your lineup is close to realistic then agree to disagree.
Not true. If you've read my posts I'm totally against Neymar's return or spending big money on Lautaro. So I don't "dislike" players you've mentioned (nothing against them personally, as I've said I actually like Trincao and Digne while I think others are good players but I just prefer other options) because they are not superstars. Far from that. I just think we could/should do better than those names.
Upamecano has a 60m buy out clause, he wouldn't be much more expensive than De Vrij or Romagnoli if at all. And he's younger, more talented and a better fit imo. I don't know why you've mentioned Koulibaly as I've never considered him as one of our potential targets. He's a very good CB no doubt but too expensive and too old for my liking. In other circumstances - if we'd have other positions better covered with younger (potential) starters and a CB would be our only remaining weakness - I could maybe go behind paying 80m+ for a soon to be 29 yo CB (who could give us 3-4 solid seasons when we'd compete for all titles) but now that we already have too many old players this would be just a wrong move.
I don't disagree with your point. But any incoming coach will need to "care" about amigos or he'll quickly be out of the club. That's their power right now. It's just a situation we're in and nothing will change until their contracts expires (hopefully we won't be stupid enough to renew them, lol). We won't sell them because they don't want to leave (why would they having high wages and guaranteed starting spot regardless of their performances?) and they won't be benched so we won't have unhappy players in locker room.
As I've said I don't think he's good enough to be a starter. And he would be more expensive than 40M for sure. Why would Everton sell their starter for that cheap when there are not many good options on the market to replace him? And why would he even want to return knowing he won't play much again because Alba is still here? See above why I don't believe Alba (and other amigos) will lose their spot in the lineup.
As I've said I like Trincao a lot. I hope he'll become a starter but I just don't see him doing this in his first season. Really hope to be wrong though as he'd be a smart, cheap signing we've made before he made a breakthrough in another club and this would hopefully lead us to do more similar deals in future.
Again, I don't disagree with you but I just think we can do better than Depay. I don't really think we should buy an expensive LW to put him infront of Fati but we could do better than Depay if we decide to buy one. And no, I'm not talking about Neymar.
I don't know much about Mallen, maybe he could be a good option but from what I've seen I'd prefer Boadu. Or someone who already has experience in La Liga like Isak. Or just go out and buy Luis Suarez to replace Luis Suarez. But these are all unrealistic targets anyway. Like it or not we'll 99% buy Lautaro so hopefully he'll turn out better than our other 100m+ signings.
And this here is our problem that not many people want to admit. His free role and low defensive work rate (yeah, he was never great defensively but he moves less every year) limit us in many areas.
LABarcaFan
New member
You are right. Here are many users that don't even like to mention Messi's luck of defense and we have struggled for years from that.
manuel blassi
Member
https://youtu.be/JrBYWEHpeic
Been looking this video, in that year we were so dominant. Not to forget we had top players in top form.
We played 4-3-3 in deffense, 3-1-4-2 in attack with:
---Pique---Puyol---Abidal---
-----------Busquets---------
-------Xavi-----Iniesta-----
Alves------Messi--–---------
-------Pedro---------Villa--
In my dream scenario we could have something like:-------TS---------------
---Pique--Upamecano--Alaba---
-----------De Jong-----------
-----Ruiz/donny----Arthur----
Adama------Messi-------------
------Lautaro---------Fati---
Griezmann, Braitwaite,Roberto,Semedo, Lenglet, Firpo,Todibo, Vidal,Busquets,
Been looking this video, in that year we were so dominant. Not to forget we had top players in top form.
We played 4-3-3 in deffense, 3-1-4-2 in attack with:
---Pique---Puyol---Abidal---
-----------Busquets---------
-------Xavi-----Iniesta-----
Alves------Messi--–---------
-------Pedro---------Villa--
In my dream scenario we could have something like:-------TS---------------
---Pique--Upamecano--Alaba---
-----------De Jong-----------
-----Ruiz/donny----Arthur----
Adama------Messi-------------
------Lautaro---------Fati---
Griezmann, Braitwaite,Roberto,Semedo, Lenglet, Firpo,Todibo, Vidal,Busquets,
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LABarcaFan
New member
First, it is very possible that Setien will stay after this summer. The new election of the board will be in the summer of 2021, so after that, if we are lucky to have a new board members and president they may hire new coach. So, having that in mind, I don't see Setien to change his strategy of using as a starters all of our aged veterans. We may have one or maximum two new players. Most likely Lautaro and Luiz Felipe and that will be it. I really don't care about that much, since this team is not a fan to watch anymore. The thing that bothers me most is that players like Upamecano, Werner, J.Sancho, Kai Havertz will be gone somewhere else. Then, we will start dreaming again and talking about another 25-30 players,among which we should sign. Hopefully this downhill will end in June 2021 when the new coach will put all amigos in the refrigerator and start the rebuilding process.
Messi983
Senior Member
I know it will never happen but at this point I would just forget about spending big money on forwards and instead bring Upamecano, Camavinga and the other Luis Suarez. We can get all of them for a combined price around 150m so probably less than Snakemar alone would cost and their combined wages would also be 5 times lower. Return Todibo, Pedri and Emerson from loans and throw all amigos (including Messi) out of the club and start a rebuild now.
MATS/Neto
Semedo/Emerson - Todibo/Araujo - Upamecano/Lenglet - Firpo/Akieme
FDJ/Arthur - Camavinga/Roberto/Ilaix
Trincao/Hiroki- Pedri/Alena - Griezmann/Fati
L. Suarez/Griezmann
We would struggle for a few seasons but this team could grow together and possibly become good. Then in 2021 we can also get Haaland for 75m.
MATS/Neto
Semedo/Emerson - Todibo/Araujo - Upamecano/Lenglet - Firpo/Akieme
FDJ/Arthur - Camavinga/Roberto/Ilaix
Trincao/Hiroki- Pedri/Alena - Griezmann/Fati
L. Suarez/Griezmann
We would struggle for a few seasons but this team could grow together and possibly become good. Then in 2021 we can also get Haaland for 75m.
^
that lineup is disastrous and probably wont get us anywhere even in a few years time.
Theres really no point in getting lesser players and "struggle" for a few seasons when we can mount a title challange. Absolutely ridiculous. Just get the best available (and fitting) players - apart from Neymar for obvious reasons.
that lineup is disastrous and probably wont get us anywhere even in a few years time.
Theres really no point in getting lesser players and "struggle" for a few seasons when we can mount a title challange. Absolutely ridiculous. Just get the best available (and fitting) players - apart from Neymar for obvious reasons.
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What if it doesn't? We can't put all eggs into one basket. Could well end up like Man United, 0 league titles in 7 years, watching the fiercest rivals win year after year.
Has there been examples of clubs rebuilding their squads entirely and coming out successful?
LABarcaFan
New member
The current line-up is 10 times more disastrous and if we keep the same core for two more years, we may end up not even qualifying for League Europe.
So what exactly do you suggest? Leaving all amigos around and "enjoying" games like this season? Who do you think we should buy? How many? let me see your thoughts and ideas of rebuilding this team.
We are stilll competing for titles, no? Going full talent is a shit way to rebuild. A few high quality signings in the mold of Frenkie each season is the safest way to move forward. Guys like Pedri can always be found (on current level). No need to depend on players who are not ready just for the sake of it.
And I personally wouldnt be too harsh on our club de amigos: Pique, Busquets, Suarez and Messi all performed well last season (wont judge this season). Anfield (for me) was more down to our incompetent board (Dembele, Coutinho, Valverde), failing in clutch moments and the more "disposable" amigos (Alba, Rakitic).
We did well enough to find replacements in midfield, if we nail the Suarez replacement we are in a decent position to win titles. Thats why I really dont understand people, who would sacrifice 3 years for basically nothing (or uncertainty).
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